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Visual Basic .NETmicrosoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb
samadams_2006 -
29 Jul 2006 10:38 PM - 6 messages
I'm having a problem in accessing a Microsoft Access Database in a VB.NET Web Application. It's so straight forward, I thought I'd walk you through all the details here: 1) I have a .NET Web Application called "Lesson18b" under ...
Jack -
29 Jul 2006 10:04 PM - 4 messages
I have an application (COM Add-in) that in the initialization code it displays a splash screen. I want the splash screen to close after n seconds , so I add a timer to the splash screen and attempt to close it from the ...
Nathan Sokalski -
29 Jul 2006 10:02 PM - 4 messages
I am using ASP.NET, VB.NET, and GDI+ to dynamically create images for webpages. When I right-click on the dynamically created image to try to save it to my hard drive, which I send as ImageFormat.Gif, my browser (Internet ...
gavin -
29 Jul 2006 8:46 PM - 2 messages
Have a previously created an Excel file and want to print on default printer. Want to initiate printing from within my application. Thanks ...
askhuy -
29 Jul 2006 4:49 PM - 6 messages
Hi All Would someone please explain to me why my threads are not running at the sametime? Here is what I don't understand. When I invoke the TestThread() procedure, I always get the output of main thread first and then the ...
Lee -
29 Jul 2006 11:38 AM - 6 messages
(I also posted this query in Microsoft.Public.DotNet.Framework yesterday, but since I have received no responses, I am posting it here too.) Using Windows XP with all updates applied and Visual Studio 2.0. I am trying to develop some common error-handling of Windows API ...
Chris -
29 Jul 2006 10:26 AM - 5 messages
Hi Everyone, I am using a regex to check for a string. When all the file contains is my test string the regex returns a match, but when I embed the test string in the middle of a text file a match is never returned. ...
Raman -
29 Jul 2006 10:07 AM - 6 messages
Hello friends, I want to print an ID card. I have one Windows Form that contains front and back side. The printer is printing both front and back side at a time. I am trying to send both sides at a time. But it is printing ...
Sara -
29 Jul 2006 9:48 AM - 3 messages
Hello there, Iam creating a user control with 2 buttons, And i have a public static variable i'll be changing the value of the variable in the button click events. When i consume the user control in the winforms application how to ...
daan -
29 Jul 2006 9:01 AM - 4 messages
Hello, I have a problem and I can't get the solution for it :( I have a com dll, which i imported as a reference. The com object is part of a class which is multithreaded and will create seperate objects ...
rb -
29 Jul 2006 7:25 AM - 12 messages
Hi All, Is there a property or method to keep the headercolumns from being resized by the user for a listview? I am using Visual Basic in Visual Studio . net 2005 Thank you. rb ...
POgletree -
29 Jul 2006 5:13 AM - 2 messages
Is there any way to toggle the RTS or DTS pin of a serial port from VB.Net 2005? It looks like the system.io.ports insulates you from that ability. Any work around? Many thanks... ...
TC -
29 Jul 2006 4:45 AM - 6 messages
I'm using VB.NET 2005. I need to create a DLL containing a function F(). A VB.NET application will reference the DLL by using a Declare statement. Declare Function F Lib "Foo.dll" (ByVal Woo As String) As Double ...
Smokey Grindle -
29 Jul 2006 2:59 AM - 2 messages
Is there any quick way to apply a blue alpha mask over an image? Kind of like windows explorer does when you select an icon by painting the icon over with a blue layer. thanks! ...
YardDancer -
28 Jul 2006 9:08 PM - 5 messages
Dear All, I am upgrading my skills from VB 6.0 to VB.Net. They say you can do all date and time calculations using the properties and methods of DateTime structure withour recourse to the functions and properties of the VB ...
JeremyGrand -
28 Jul 2006 6:10 PM - 2 messages
I've read what's available here, but can't seem to make this work right. I'm experimenting with components on a form, although I'd rather create the pieces & assemble them in code, but that's another issue entirely. ...
Mitchell S. Honnert -
28 Jul 2006 6:01 PM - 8 messages
Is there an equivalent of the DataGrid's DataGridTableStyle for the DataGridView? If not, is there an easy way to duplicate the DataGridTableStyle's functionality for the DataGridView? Here's the background for my question... Before I switched my application over to the Fx 2.0, I used a DataGrid to ...
lm2b2005 -
28 Jul 2006 4:10 PM - 2 messages
Hi I've written, installed, started and debugged my vb.net 2005 windows service and all works fine. But only while I am debugging it in Visual studio 2005. Any idea how I can get my WS to work while not debugging it with Visual ...
ameen.abdullah -
28 Jul 2006 3:49 PM - 3 messages
Hi Guys, I have a datagrid which is binded to dataset which is gettting data from xml. Now i need to know if i edit or add data to the datagrid, whats the best possible way to fetch it? .. i need to fetch the data ...
martin1 -
28 Jul 2006 3:37 PM - 3 messages
Hi, All, The datagridview auto-select first column first row data and the slected cell background color is blue, so how to turn off the select? or how to change selected cell backcolor to white? Thanks ...
BigJohn -
28 Jul 2006 2:45 PM - 6 messages
I have upgraded my ASP.Net/VB solution from 2003 to 2005. In 2003 I had a VB Module with global functions referenced in virtually all ASP.Net VB modules. After the upgrade to 2005 the ASP.Net VB code no longer recognizes my global ...
mark.milley@binaryswitch.com -
28 Jul 2006 1:37 PM - 5 messages
Hi all - I'm a complete noob when it comes to using the system.drawing namespace. I'd like to draw a control to an image instead of on screen (the object shouldn't appear on screen at all). Any ideas? ...
Eugenio.Net -
28 Jul 2006 8:52 AM - 3 messages
Hello all I have a SubProcess in a DropDownList, I need to call this process several times from a command button. Thanks for your help. E ...
*.dpG -
28 Jul 2006 8:21 AM - 4 messages
Hi I have some questions about serial port in vb.net.... I try only to recieve data, and I'm using this to open port -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With sPort .PortName = "COM1" ...
*.dpG -
28 Jul 2006 8:21 AM - 2 messages
Hi I have some questions about serial port in vb.net.... I try only to recieve data, and I'm using this to open port -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With sPort .PortName = "COM1" ...
Bharathi kumar -
28 Jul 2006 8:10 AM - 2 messages
Hi, Iam working on VS.NET 2005. My scenario is as follows: I opened a window by clicking a menu item in the MDI form and then I ...
RdS -
28 Jul 2006 3:42 AM - 5 messages
hello, When I create a form that ties to dataset of table with only 20 records in it I understand that all 20 records are copied to my local computers memory for manipulation. Then if rows were modified the tableadapter class updates ...
Miro -
28 Jul 2006 1:58 AM - 3 messages
In VB Net 2003 I can see where to set the color of each tab ( the form part of it ) but how do you / or can you, set the color of the actual tab part you click on? Miro ...
RdS -
28 Jul 2006 12:57 AM - 17 messages
Hello Would someone tell me the differences between following statements? When would you use one over the other? dim objtest1 as car dim objtest2 as new car dim objtest3 as car = new car Are not objtest2 and objtest3 doing the same thing? I understand the = ...
melton9 -
27 Jul 2006 11:03 PM - 4 messages
I'm trying to send a "get" through webbrowser1. I'm really not sure how to do this. I'm trying to emulate a button click on a page with a lot of frames. When you click the refresh button it sends a "Get" to the site and the ...
Miro -
27 Jul 2006 10:35 PM - 5 messages
I'm using VB.Net 2003 I have code - it works great - to kill a process(s) if they are running. ---- Dim myProcesses() As Process 'Funny - withouth the () in the ...
Kyote -
27 Jul 2006 9:45 PM - 6 messages
Sorry, but I have no idea how to phrase the subject better than that. I've come across this a few different times and decided to ask in case there's a way to do it. It would simplify things a bit and I figured ...
davermcl -
27 Jul 2006 9:31 PM - 5 messages
Hi, I'm experiencing a problem when using the VB SendKeys method. I'm sending characters to a textbox in another application. It works fine when the Windows Input Languages on both apps are set to English, but ...
melton9 -
27 Jul 2006 9:21 PM - 2 messages
Is it possible to use Firefox instead of IE in a form? I have it set as my default browser and would prefer it. ...
Ryan -
27 Jul 2006 9:15 PM - 3 messages
I want to ping every IP on a subnet (255 IP's) and display in a table what IP's are active. I'm currently using a For loop but this takes forever because it pauses to test each Ping. So my guess is that I need to run 255 ...
Rico -
27 Jul 2006 9:00 PM - 4 messages
Hello, I'm new to VB.net and I have an application that I would like to open up in one of two different modes depending on a command line switch. The code will run as a scheduled task in Windows every fifteen minutes. I'd like to ...
iwdu15 -
27 Jul 2006 8:57 PM - 2 messages
hi, i added an item to the system menu for every application (looping through each process and using the MainWindowHandle to get the handle, the using the GetSystemMenu and AppendMenu APIs to add a menu item) but now i need to have ...
Teo -
27 Jul 2006 7:47 PM - 2 messages
Hey guys!! I created a database using the built in SQL Express that comes with Visual Basic Express. I created the tables and relationships for now and I want to start testing how the information would go into the database. ...
Learner -
27 Jul 2006 7:38 PM - 5 messages
Hello, I have database field called 'PullAHead' defined as a bit field. Now if user doesn't pick a 'Yes' or 'No' in the front I need to be able to send a null value into the 'PullAHead' field in the database. ...
Alejandro -
27 Jul 2006 7:11 PM - 3 messages
Hi, I have a form with a PictureBox bmp file, this image have 2 circles, 2 box, random size, random location, I need make a class to paint box/circle when I press click, Pls help me. Tks ...
dotnetnoob -
27 Jul 2006 7:10 PM - 2 messages
i have a arraylist that store String() array the string array hold value 1 2 4 i want to access the string array that is inside the arraylist one arraylist item at the time i search up and down for a way to do this but i havn't come arcoss anything ...
Marc Miller -
27 Jul 2006 6:01 PM - 4 messages
Hi all, I need to store a list of modules.functions() in an array and then loop thru the array and call the functions. I have not been able to get any code to work. Here's what I need to do: ...
Tony Van -
27 Jul 2006 5:52 PM - 2 messages
Right. When Phish fly. this is the latest version of security update, the "June 2006, Cumulative Patch" update which fixes all known security vulnerabilities affecting MS Internet Explorer, MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express as well as three new vulnerabilities. ...
Samuel Shulman -
27 Jul 2006 5:26 PM - 7 messages
Is there method to verify that a value is integer and not double Thank you, Samuel ...
Spam Catcher -
27 Jul 2006 5:17 PM - 7 messages
Does anyone know why this doesn't work: Select Case X Case X or Y msgbox("hello world!") End Select It seems X or Y doesn't evaluate correctly (I think only the first 1/2 is ...
Chris Pratt -
27 Jul 2006 5:04 PM - 4 messages
I'm sorry to ask such a fundamental question, but is it possible to create a copy of an object in VB.Net 2005? I have an app which, on load, creates an instance of a class, into which it ...
Nicolas Ghesquiere -
27 Jul 2006 4:06 PM - 2 messages
Hello I have a problem with my current program. The meaning of the program is to allow users to login to a server to allow them to access the internet. My program communicates with a MS isa server to make a rule for that IP for ...
John Kotuby -
27 Jul 2006 3:04 PM - 5 messages
Hello all, I have VStudio 2005 currently installed on my workstation. However, I am collaborating on a project with an outside consultant who is using VS 2003. Every so often he sends me new or updated modules to add to the project and ...
Alex Clark -
27 Jul 2006 2:49 PM - 2 messages
Hi All, I've searched the documentation and Google for an answer to this but to no avail. It seems that System.Version does not serialize to XML. I checked the documentation and this type is flagged as being Serializable, it has a ...
lawjake -
27 Jul 2006 2:00 PM - 15 messages
I am having a dispute at work over endifs, and cannot find any treatise on this. So I am hoping that I can get a lot of correspondece confirming my belief. Here it is: I believe the following: (1)If a language has an "endif", then ...
pierre.k -
27 Jul 2006 1:32 PM - 8 messages
Hi, first of all, please forgive me if I am posting in a wrong forum. I'm using Visual Studio .NET 2005 Pro and I am wondering if there is a way to target win32 platform when compiling a VB project, so that ...
Christoph Duesmann -
27 Jul 2006 1:23 PM - 4 messages
Hi ! My socket server doesn't remove the socket if a client is disconnected suddenly (network problems etc.) If the client starts the app again, it is existing two times in the servers hashtable. I don't know how to "dispose" the socket completely. ...
Phill W. -
27 Jul 2006 1:02 PM - 6 messages
(VB'2003) What's the correct way to remove multiple, selected items from a ListView control (say, from a ContextMenu)? I ask because I'm getting a very annoying ArgumentOutOfRangeException because the ListView seems to be trying to "re-select" items that are no ...
myname -
27 Jul 2006 11:16 AM - 2 messages
Hello, I'm using VB.Net 2003. OdbcDataRead.getString(i as integer) allows me to retrieve fields by index. Is there any way to get fields by field name ? Thanks ! ...
Michael -
27 Jul 2006 11:10 AM - 4 messages
Newbie question I am trying to access external code from within VB using DLLimport in the form below where testsub is the procedure name within the DLL <DllImport("MyDll.dll", EntryPoint:="testsub", SetLastError:=True, _ CharSet:=CharSet.Unicode, ExactSpelling:=True, _ ...
Elankathir S.N. -
27 Jul 2006 10:33 AM - 2 messages
I Created Object A in the Object B. then I called a function of object A from object B… Like.. Public Class A Public Event beforeSample() Public Sub function_Sample() RaiseEvent beforeSample() ‘’’’’’ ‘’’’’’ ‘’’’’’ End Function End Class Public Class B ...
myname -
27 Jul 2006 9:41 AM - 2 messages
Hello, I'm using VB.Net 2003. I can't figure out how to change the width of a column in a Datagrid. I found some examples with Datagrid.Columns(i).Width but I get the error "Columns is not a member of ...
Peter -
27 Jul 2006 5:30 AM - 8 messages
I have the following code: _transColl is a collection of classes and it contains about 42000 objects My question is there any way I can make this code run faster? I have found out that line 2 is realy expensive (time wise) : ...
Tony Van -
27 Jul 2006 3:16 AM - 6 messages
A philosophical question I guess.... In VB6, I used a function to take city, state and zipcode fields and combine them with a comma, correct formatting and allowances for null or blank entries. In VB.NET, its it permissible to still use ...
HockeyFan -
27 Jul 2006 1:27 AM - 2 messages
I'm somewhat new to .Net. I have a dictionary object that I've been putting keys and values into. Is there a way to keep this around after a postback, and if so, can someone point me to some code that does it. ...
Carlos Cruz -
26 Jul 2006 11:09 PM - 4 messages
Hi, I've a DataGridView with Datasourse = Datatable. The problem is that I can't get my last record updated at the database unless I change the row where I'm editing... Can anyone explain me why and how can I manage to get rid of this? ...
nime -
26 Jul 2006 10:32 PM - 3 messages
Hi! If a collection ( here; a List) is Nothing then I cannot use .Add method, It causes an error: System.NullReferenceException was unhandled Message="Object reference not set to an instance of an object." ...
tshad -
26 Jul 2006 9:42 PM - 3 messages
Is there a way to dynamically add in User Controls where I would get the name from a session variable: If I have the following code: ****************************************************************************** <%@ Page Language="VB" trace="false" debug="true" ContentType="text/html" ResponseEncoding="iso-8859-1" %> ...
gene kelley -
26 Jul 2006 8:47 PM - 5 messages
I had a VB6 app that used a third party ListView control to simply display various recordsets. The control had a VirtualMode which I used for this display. Now in VB2005, I want to do the same with the native ListView to display various datasets in ...
Smokey Grindle -
26 Jul 2006 7:26 PM - 4 messages
How can you "inverse" a color in GDI+? Say the color I have is blue, the inverse of that is yellow... how would you go about doing this? is there a simpler way then taking the RGB values and takeing the difference from 255? ...
Ryan H -
26 Jul 2006 6:36 PM - 2 messages
Hi, My application is written in VB.NET and has a data access layer that resides on a different server and is accessed via Remoting. Currently, when performing an update to the database, I pass the SQL string and connection string to the data access layer like so: ...
b747_440 -
26 Jul 2006 6:22 PM - 4 messages
Hello Newsgroup, I try to resize and move a picturebox. However, after each operation the picture box is being redrawn. This causes flickering. Is it possible to suppress the first redraw and draw both operations at once after they have been completed? ...
nita -
26 Jul 2006 5:48 PM - 4 messages
I'm just starting out, and it's incredibly frustrating when I see sample code and then try to implement it. Case in point. I'm populating a collection then binding it to a datagrid. That works great. The problem is the columns are in the wrong ...
rasta475 -
26 Jul 2006 4:06 PM - 11 messages
I am working with a Compact Framework project that was written in VB.Net using Visual Studio .Net 2003. That said I have been given the task of making it run "faster". I am a C# programmer and I know there ...
Chris -
26 Jul 2006 2:56 PM - 4 messages
Hi everyone, I'm trying to parse through the contents of some text files with regular expressions, but am new to regular expressions and how to use them in VB.net. I'm pretty sure that the regular expressions are correct as I got them from ...
fniles -
26 Jul 2006 2:44 PM - 9 messages
I have a collection inside a class, sometimes when I add to the collection, I get the error "At least one object must implement IComparable". What does the error mean ? Thanks. Public Class SessionClass Private Quotes As Collection = New Collection ...
myname -
26 Jul 2006 1:48 PM - 3 messages
Hello, I'm using VB.Net 2003. In MS Access, you can create simple forms to edit/add rows to your table. Is there a simple way to do this from VB.Net (displaying a table and allowing direct update of it, without SQL commands) ? ...
BogusException -
26 Jul 2006 1:11 PM - 7 messages
I'll ask a simple question: How can someone generate any number of threads from within a simple "for" ot Timer loop/sub (including indefinitely)? Dim i As Integer For i = 1 To 10 Dim t As New Thread(AddressOf DoSomethingSub) ...
Paul Remblance -
26 Jul 2006 10:19 AM - 3 messages
I am trying to use the bindingnavigator addnewitem button to place the focus on the first cell in the newrow row. I have disabled the default action and I am using the bindingnavigatoraddnewitem click event. Using newrowindex for the row how can I move the focus? ...
AA -
26 Jul 2006 5:32 AM - 5 messages
Hi, I am having to vb files. One is located under C:/VB/main and the other is under C:/VB/class. File under main looks like: <code> Module Module1 Sub Main() Dim test As New Test1 End Sub ...
NAT -
26 Jul 2006 3:35 AM - 3 messages
I have a xml open and close tag <abc> </abc>. I assign a string variable to this tag. <abc> & NAT & </abc> . The value of the variable NAT = Cal&FLo. But ...
eking -
26 Jul 2006 2:56 AM - 5 messages
//Thanks for any help,thank you!лл¡£ public override void FloodFill(Bitmap bmp, Point pt) { int ctr=timeGetTime(); //Debug.WriteLine("*******Flood Fill******"); //get the color's int value, and convert it from RGBA to BGRA format (as ...
steve -
26 Jul 2006 2:54 AM - 2 messages
Hi All I have a program which is installed on users computers via an msi from vb.net 2005 deployment project At the end of the install (.net framework and my application) I want to auto launch another program of mine from the same CD which contains logic to ...
James Wong -
26 Jul 2006 2:00 AM - 7 messages
Hi, Can WinCE & Pocket PC support the "AsyncCallback"? ...
TC -
26 Jul 2006 1:58 AM - 13 messages
I'm trying to figure out what the "Friend" keyword does. I know it specifies that "elements are accessible from within the same assembly", but that doesn't help because I don't know what an assembly is. I know ...
vongi -
26 Jul 2006 1:55 AM - 2 messages
Dear All: I hope someone can answer me this question. I did send out the following url from IE and I can send out correctly, but as I use webrequest.create to send out this http, I just receive special characters and cannot get wthe ...
Joe Cool -
26 Jul 2006 1:40 AM - 2 messages
I know how to manipulate the text in a Taskbar Icon, but can you display a graphical style progress bar there? ...
Jack -
26 Jul 2006 1:08 AM - 2 messages
Hello, I need to convert a 'System.Xml.XmlNode' to a string. Any help would be great!!! Thanks, Jack ...
Matt -
26 Jul 2006 12:42 AM - 8 messages
I've asked this question to some developers that are much more experienced than I, and gotten different answers --- and I can't find anything about it in the documentation. Dim vs. Private as a variable declaration What is the difference between the two (I strongly suspect there is none) ...
TC -
25 Jul 2006 11:50 PM - 6 messages
I don't use the Form Designer. Is there any way to disable it completely? I find it annoying that every time I create a new form, or double-click on an existing one, Visual Studio uses the Designer by ...
Siva -
25 Jul 2006 11:15 PM - 5 messages
Hi, I am working on VB project. I am new to VB. Could any one tells me what do the following codes do? Specially, what does GetPrivateProfileString do? Private Declare Function GetPrivateProfileString _ Lib "kernel32" Alias "GetPrivateProfileStringA" _ ...
tshad -
25 Jul 2006 10:04 PM - 4 messages
I am getting the following error which makes no sense. I am doing this in asp.net. I get the following error: No accessible overloaded If you look at the error, there is one overloaded function that can be ...
Chris Thunell -
25 Jul 2006 9:58 PM - 2 messages
I'm using VStudio2005 and working with a VB.Net windows form application. The project is located in the My Documents folder... under a UNC shared path. \\fs1\users\cthunell\My Documents\My Projects (something like this) I'm getting a SecurityException was unhandled.. Request for the Permission ...
tommaso.gastaldi -
25 Jul 2006 9:39 PM - 8 messages
It would be useful, sometimes, when debugging, to disable all the try /catch one has in the program (clearly not commenting them out). Any info or hint on that? -tom ...
luvwknd -
25 Jul 2006 9:23 PM - 8 messages
Hi all, I am attempting to utilize MS's article I.D. #828993 found at: [link] In an effort to create a GUI Ping utility that ultimately will show me via a ...
dotnetnoob -
25 Jul 2006 9:23 PM - 2 messages
let's say i have a arraylist that contain 1 1 0 1 this arraylist serve as a flag if the value inside the arraylist is 1 then that mean it's on and if it's 0 then it's off ...
johnb41 -
25 Jul 2006 8:33 PM - 8 messages
Does anyone have experience with LEGO Mindstorms? I just found out about it and it seems so cool! You can create intelligent robots with vision, feel, hearing, movement, etc, and it's all programmable. [link] ...
M O J O -
25 Jul 2006 8:30 PM - 14 messages
Often when I run my aspnet 2.0 vb application, I get this exception.... "Microsoft (R) Visual Basic Compiler has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." Error signature: AppName: devenv.exe AppVer: 8.0.50727.42 AppStamp:4333e699 ...
JR -
25 Jul 2006 8:21 PM - 3 messages
Hi, How can I show in 2003 a contextmenu or mainmenu when all forms are hidden. I have a program that runs in the backgroud and I want to show that menu with a keyboard shortcut Jan ...
csgraham74 -
25 Jul 2006 7:56 PM - 5 messages
Hi Guys, I was wondering if anyone could help me find a function to get a week ending function?? i.e. week ending on sunday Therefore if a i was to input todays date in my function it would output the sunday date of the same week. If anyone has a such a ...
iwdu15 -
25 Jul 2006 7:55 PM - 5 messages
ok, thanks for all you who have put up with all my API questions today....last one (besides my one about adding a Menu Item to the system menu for all processes....) I have the handle of a window, i get the icon, hide the window by using ...
Brian Shafer -
25 Jul 2006 7:40 PM - 8 messages
i have Public Function ShowMyDate(ByVal dtmDate As Date, ByVal bytDate As Short) As String I get an error if the combobox is "". Which will lead me into the next question Me.Label7.Text = i.ShowMyDate(Date.Today(), Me.ComboBox2.Text) in a form ...
paraidy -
25 Jul 2006 7:17 PM - 4 messages
Hi Guys, i would to know if a file is used by a process, and what is the process that use the file, how can i do this in VB.net? thanks :) ...
dotnetnoob -
25 Jul 2006 6:46 PM - 5 messages
i have a arraylist that look like this item 0 - hold this value 1,2,4 item 1 - hold this value 3,6,7 if i want to access the item 0 i get the whole 1,2,4 how do i seperate them ...
Rich -
25 Jul 2006 6:40 PM - 3 messages
Hello, I am adding a makeshift Help component to my VB2005 project. That means I am not using HTML help to create a chm (unless someone can explain how you connect a chm file to a project - I have HTML workshop - and sort of know how ...
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