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Which database should I use?I want to write a database application, which I later want to sell. Now I am looking for a nice, little database which would have to fullfil these requirements: * Either free or low cost * Support encryption * run via network or locally * low CPU usage (I don't need a big web server database) * run on Windows 98 and later * Allow several users to access the db at the same time * reliable if 2 or more users want to access the same record at the same time I don't want to use MS Access, because it is not very reliable if multiple user access the same record. I was thinking about using Firebird, but it doesn't support encryption, so the data are not really safe. Do you have any ideas? Thank you in advance, HKSHK What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS Access
for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular requirements that you have mentioned. Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. Regards Cyril Gupta I am with Cyril ,,
if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out there , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would prefer a RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they all miss the security thingy about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your program design regards Michel Posseth [MCP] Show quoteHide quote "Cyril Gupta" <nom***@mail.com> wrote in message news:O3518EbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... > What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS Access > for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products > widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular > requirements that you have mentioned. > > Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get > all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. > > Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through > workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. > > Regards > Cyril Gupta > I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable. It's
only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer is a bit on the weak side. However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options, I'd go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days it's called SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from www.microsoft.com hth, Martin Show quoteHide quote "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message news:%23E6%23DrbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >I am with Cyril ,, > > > if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out there > , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would prefer a > RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they all miss the > security thingy > > > about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your > program design > > > regards > > Michel Posseth [MCP] > > > "Cyril Gupta" <nom***@mail.com> wrote in message > news:O3518EbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS >> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my >> products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the >> particular requirements that you have mentioned. >> >> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get >> all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. >> >> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through >> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. >> >> Regards >> Cyril Gupta >> > > Ahum sorry but you are wrong :-)
I wish MSDE or SQL Express could even come close to the security that Access has with the combination Workgroup information file >Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter That is exactly what is possible with SQL server and for a fact with all > and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer is > a bit on the weak side. other RDBMS systems but not with Access in combination with a Workgroup information file ( this is not the same as the easy to break password protected database ) if you ship a sql mdf file everyone with a Enterprise Manager or SMS installed and administrator rights on his system can access the database if you want to take up the challenge i can send you a workgroup protected database of mine and you can see for yourself :-) regards Michel Posseth [MCP] Show quoteHide quote "Martin" <x@y.com> wrote in message news:Ot9eUHcGGHA.3856@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... >I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable. It's >only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter >and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer is >a bit on the weak side. > > However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options, I'd > go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days it's > called SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from > www.microsoft.com > > hth, > Martin > > > "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message > news:%23E6%23DrbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >>I am with Cyril ,, >> >> >> if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out there >> , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would prefer a >> RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they all miss the >> security thingy >> >> >> about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your >> program design >> >> >> regards >> >> Michel Posseth [MCP] >> >> >> "Cyril Gupta" <nom***@mail.com> wrote in message >> news:O3518EbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS >>> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my >>> products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the >>> particular requirements that you have mentioned. >>> >>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get >>> all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. >>> >>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through >>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. >>> >>> Regards >>> Cyril Gupta >>> >> >> > > This isn't an issue if you encypt the data a you should.
Show quoteHide quote "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message news:O8IxGQcGGHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... > > Ahum sorry but you are wrong :-) > > I wish MSDE or SQL Express could even come close to the security that > Access has with the combination Workgroup information file > > >Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter >> and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer >> is a bit on the weak side. > > That is exactly what is possible with SQL server and for a fact with all > other RDBMS systems but not with Access in combination with a Workgroup > information file ( this is not the same as the easy to break password > protected database ) > > if you ship a sql mdf file everyone with a Enterprise Manager or SMS > installed and administrator rights on his system can access the database > > > if you want to take up the challenge i can send you a workgroup protected > database of mine and you can see for yourself :-) > > regards > > Michel Posseth [MCP] > > > > > > "Martin" <x@y.com> wrote in message > news:Ot9eUHcGGHA.3856@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... >>I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable. >>It's only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can basically >>enter and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they >>offer is a bit on the weak side. >> >> However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options, >> I'd go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days it's >> called SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from >> www.microsoft.com >> >> hth, >> Martin >> >> >> "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message >> news:%23E6%23DrbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >>>I am with Cyril ,, >>> >>> >>> if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out >>> there , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would >>> prefer a RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they >>> all miss the security thingy >>> >>> >>> about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your >>> program design >>> >>> >>> regards >>> >>> Michel Posseth [MCP] >>> >>> >>> "Cyril Gupta" <nom***@mail.com> wrote in message >>> news:O3518EbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >>>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS >>>> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my >>>> products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the >>>> particular requirements that you have mentioned. >>>> >>>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not >>>> get all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. >>>> >>>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through >>>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Cyril Gupta >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Huh ???
As you should ??? you know what should they should have taken care of programmers like me who have valuable data The aproach of all RDMS systems is that the user that owns the system is also the owner of the data wich is not always the case If i should implement encryption in my database ( as it is the standard acording to your comment ) why isn`t this feature there ??? my companny pays a lot for SQL server ( 2000 enterprise and 2005 ) and even on this versions it isn`t even there , if i SHOULD do that the tools SHOULD be there and they are not , in ACCESS they are there and i can do it even better without anny noticable performance lost ( my proggy`s run on win 98 on a PII 300 MHZ without problems ) The only way i can protect my sql data is by implementing custom encryption ,,,, and even this is more suitable for storing for instance credit card info etc etc what if you have the situation where you query on hughe datasets ? of protected data do you have a solution for this to ?? please tell me i am curious as i hear a lot of bla from people that can`t inmagine the problem to give you an idea : Yes i know SQL server verry well ( i use it daily in a corporate environment ) Yes i wish i could use sql server in my deployable apps look at this website http://www.bildelskatalogen.se/ this is one of the products i make , now inmagine that the customers pay for the data relations and NOT for the program we have people in our company that mine this data from OE manufacturers the data is the value of the product in the web application everything is fine as it is running on our companny`s SQL server We also ship catalogue programs to end users ( currently written in VB6 icw ACCESS with a workgroup file ) we are now bussy writing a BLS in VS.net 2005 we investigated the possibility`s and untill so far nothing beats Access in terms of performance in combination with security ( and then i did not even mention it`s small footprint and the ease of deployability wich i would trade for more performance ) regards Michel Posseth [MCP] Show quoteHide quote "Jim" <reply@groups.please> wrote in message news:6Cqyf.69408$Lb1.8729@bignews3.bellsouth.net... > This isn't an issue if you encypt the data a you should. > > "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message > news:O8IxGQcGGHA.1180@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... >> >> Ahum sorry but you are wrong :-) >> >> I wish MSDE or SQL Express could even come close to the security that >> Access has with the combination Workgroup information file >> >> >Everyone with MS-Access can basically enter >>> and alter the database. That password protection thingy that they offer >>> is a bit on the weak side. >> >> That is exactly what is possible with SQL server and for a fact with all >> other RDBMS systems but not with Access in combination with a Workgroup >> information file ( this is not the same as the easy to break password >> protected database ) >> >> if you ship a sql mdf file everyone with a Enterprise Manager or SMS >> installed and administrator rights on his system can access the database >> >> >> if you want to take up the challenge i can send you a workgroup protected >> database of mine and you can see for yourself :-) >> >> regards >> >> Michel Posseth [MCP] >> >> >> >> >> >> "Martin" <x@y.com> wrote in message >> news:Ot9eUHcGGHA.3856@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... >>>I agree, the Jet engine is a great little engine, and highly reliable. >>>It's only weak point is on security. Everyone with MS-Access can >>>basically enter and alter the database. That password protection thingy >>>that they offer is a bit on the weak side. >>> >>> However, if you like free and reliable and with more security options, >>> I'd go for MSDE (SQL Server Desktop Edition, or I believe these days >>> it's called SQL Server 2005 Express). It is free and downloadable from >>> www.microsoft.com >>> >>> hth, >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message >>> news:%23E6%23DrbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >>>>I am with Cyril ,, >>>> >>>> >>>> if you need the described functionality Access stands all alone out >>>> there , i have not yet found a good alternative ( although i would >>>> prefer a RDBMS as i use databases of gigabytes in size ) however they >>>> all miss the security thingy >>>> >>>> >>>> about the multi user problem ,,,,, well you can tackle this with your >>>> program design >>>> >>>> >>>> regards >>>> >>>> Michel Posseth [MCP] >>>> >>>> >>>> "Cyril Gupta" <nom***@mail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:O3518EbGGHA.1192@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >>>>> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS >>>>> Access for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market >>>>> my products widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the >>>>> particular requirements that you have mentioned. >>>>> >>>>> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not >>>>> get all the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. >>>>> >>>>> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through >>>>> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> Cyril Gupta >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Hi Michel,
Do you have any example on how to do that? Thanks in advance, HKSHK Hello
here are some links to get you started http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HA010546941033.aspx this one is verry good step by step with pictures ( also note the links that show how to implement user level security ) http://www.databasedev.co.uk/access_security.html the big trick is to create a new Administrator user and throw out the default accounts now nobody can access the database unless they know what is the workgroup file ( i rename it ) and the username and password so the security is in multiple layers ( knowing that the DB is secured by another workgroup , discovering what is the workgroup file , and finding the username and password ) oh by the way if you google on the subject you will find several people claiming they can extract the password form the workgroup file well we have also implemented database encryption in the workgroup file ( with a key you must assign yourself ) we bought several of these tools and they all failed ( we did not get our monney back ;-) if you need more help ,,, for instance how to connect to it from code etc etc feel free to ask regards Michel Posseth [MCP] Show quoteHide quote "HKSHK" <hk***@gmx.net> wrote in message news:1137326642.843629.65900@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Hi Michel, > > Do you have any example on how to do that? > > Thanks in advance, > > HKSHK > I was interested in your comment about "workarounds" for Access Reliability.
I assume you are referring to simultaneous access to a record. Do you have any suggestions for what "workarounds" are needed. I was assuming that users had simultaneious read access and that when writing to the database that the write would wait for anyother writes to finish. Looks like I may have been wrong. -- Show quoteHide quoteDennis in Houston "Cyril Gupta" wrote: > What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS Access > for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products > widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular > requirements that you have mentioned. > > Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get all > the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. > > Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through > workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. > > Regards > Cyril Gupta > > > Hmm... No, you aren't wrong Dennis. You can actually lock the database as
per your requirement if you want. If you explain your problem specifically I might be in a position to give you possible leads to the solution. Regards Cyril Gupta Dennis
Split the database when you come near the 2 GB border ( i do this around 600 MB ) to call one > Looks like I may have been You are not wrong these are all things that you can set with the connection > wrong. and recordset object ( VB6 ) i prefer to use firehose cursors to read and optimistic locking for writing the data you can simulate this behavior in .Net regards Michel in Rotterdam :-) Show quoteHide quote "Dennis" <Den***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:0D871539-1FBC-4286-B301-250E8FC6151D@microsoft.com... >I was interested in your comment about "workarounds" for Access >Reliability. > I assume you are referring to simultaneous access to a record. Do you > have > any suggestions for what "workarounds" are needed. I was assuming that > users > had simultaneious read access and that when writing to the database that > the > write would wait for anyother writes to finish. Looks like I may have > been > wrong. > -- > Dennis in Houston > > > "Cyril Gupta" wrote: > >> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS >> Access >> for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products >> widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular >> requirements that you have mentioned. >> >> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get >> all >> the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. >> >> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through >> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. >> >> Regards >> Cyril Gupta >> >> >> Thanks for answers. I"m not sure what the "optimistic" locking is nor how to
split a database. I'll do some "googling" and see if I can find out what it's all about. What I really wanted to do was put an access database on the internet so more than one user can read from it simultaneously and also write without errors due to someone else simultaneously read or writing. -- Show quoteHide quoteDennis in Houston "m.posseth" wrote: > > Dennis > > > Split the database when you come near the 2 GB border ( i do this around 600 > MB ) to call one > > > Looks like I may have been > > wrong. > > > You are not wrong these are all things that you can set with the connection > and recordset object ( VB6 ) > > i prefer to use firehose cursors to read and optimistic locking for writing > the data > > you can simulate this behavior in .Net > > > regards > > Michel in Rotterdam :-) > > > "Dennis" <Den***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:0D871539-1FBC-4286-B301-250E8FC6151D@microsoft.com... > >I was interested in your comment about "workarounds" for Access > >Reliability. > > I assume you are referring to simultaneous access to a record. Do you > > have > > any suggestions for what "workarounds" are needed. I was assuming that > > users > > had simultaneious read access and that when writing to the database that > > the > > write would wait for anyother writes to finish. Looks like I may have > > been > > wrong. > > -- > > Dennis in Houston > > > > > > "Cyril Gupta" wrote: > > > >> What reliability issues have you faced in MS Access? I have used MS > >> Access > >> for many of my commercial applications. Like you I too market my products > >> widely and I have found that NOTHING beats Access for the particular > >> requirements that you have mentioned. > >> > >> Do you really want to use an alternative database technology and not get > >> all > >> the benefits of wide-usage and tools that Jet offers. > >> > >> Most reliability issues that people report can be solved through > >> workarounds, so do report the issues, maybe there's a solution. > >> > >> Regards > >> Cyril Gupta > >> > >> > >> > > > "Dennis" <Den***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message Optimistically locking implies locking as little of the DB as possible news:06C20B53-C955-4556-B48D-28B3C69410D4@microsoft.com... > Thanks for answers. I"m not sure what the "optimistic" locking is nor how > to > split a database. I'll do some "googling" and see if I can find out what > it's all about. What I really wanted to do was put an access database on > the > internet so more than one user can read from it simultaneously and also > write > without errors due to someone else simultaneously read or writing. during updates. Ask yourself what you want user A to see when user B has the record(s) locked for update. How do I detect that a record and/or database is locked?
-- Show quoteHide quoteDennis in Houston "Homer J Simpson" wrote: > > "Dennis" <Den***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > news:06C20B53-C955-4556-B48D-28B3C69410D4@microsoft.com... > > > Thanks for answers. I"m not sure what the "optimistic" locking is nor how > > to > > split a database. I'll do some "googling" and see if I can find out what > > it's all about. What I really wanted to do was put an access database on > > the > > internet so more than one user can read from it simultaneously and also > > write > > without errors due to someone else simultaneously read or writing. > > Optimistically locking implies locking as little of the DB as possible > during updates. > > Ask yourself what you want user A to see when user B has the record(s) > locked for update. > > > > Hello Dennis
You don't have to detect. When you try to update the DB you get a big fat error. You catch it, and process it :) Cyril Thanks...that's what I was afraid of. I'll have to check for the concurrenty
error in all my DB access. -- Show quoteHide quoteDennis in Houston "Cyril Gupta" wrote: > Hello Dennis > > You don't have to detect. When you try to update the DB you get a big fat > error. You catch it, and process it :) > > Cyril > > > On 15 Jan 2006 00:28:26 -0800, "HKSHK" <hk***@gmx.net> wrote:
www.vistadb.com
>Do you have any ideas? > Not free and it depends on your definition of low-cost, but looks good compared to other high-cost solutions. JGD did some comparisation tests and guess ,,, although they claim they are
faster as Access turned out in my tests that they were actually much slower i have tried them all SQLlite , vistadb etc etc etc all claim to be better but can`t make the claim for reall regards Michel Posseth [MCP] Show quoteHide quote "John Dann" <n***@prodata.co.uk> wrote in message news:u4oks194l5n2jp38aptll5eibpjb3r0c6u@4ax.com... > On 15 Jan 2006 00:28:26 -0800, "HKSHK" <hk***@gmx.net> wrote: > >>Do you have any ideas? >> > > www.vistadb.com > > Not free and it depends on your definition of low-cost, but looks good > compared to other high-cost solutions. > > JGD "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message IME it's rarely the DB engine. Speed issues are usually the fault of the news:uxRWWXeGGHA.2680@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... > did some comparisation tests and guess ,,, although they claim they are > faster as Access turned out in my tests that they were actually much > slower > > i have tried them all SQLlite , vistadb etc etc etc all claim to be > better but can`t make the claim for reall application designers, some of who do loony things which screw things up. Oracle, well designed, should be as fast as can be with the server 10 feet away. I don't regard 5+ hours to retrieve one record as indicative of a well designed system (no joke). about that ACCESS Thingy
well in this situation we wrote a program that retrieved data from a 8 million records 3 column database ( simulated license plate retrival, verry comon in our app ) , 30000 updates ( to simulate a price update ) and and some random selects on 2 joined tables with 30.0000 records both turned out that with this same dataset Access was the overall winner ( ofcourse a RDMS is faster , however these company`s claimed to have a faster product ) regards Michel Posseth [MCP] "Homer J Simpson" <nob***@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:KEyyf.82650$AP5.64612@edtnps84...Show quoteHide quote > > "m.posseth" <mich***@nohausystems.nl> wrote in message > news:uxRWWXeGGHA.2680@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... > >> did some comparisation tests and guess ,,, although they claim they are >> faster as Access turned out in my tests that they were actually much >> slower >> >> i have tried them all SQLlite , vistadb etc etc etc all claim to be >> better but can`t make the claim for reall > > IME it's rarely the DB engine. Speed issues are usually the fault of the > application designers, some of who do loony things which screw things up. > > Oracle, well designed, should be as fast as can be with the server 10 feet > away. I don't regard 5+ hours to retrieve one record as indicative of a > well designed system (no joke). > > > 
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