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Learning ProgrammingHey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question about
learning any programming language. I understand that as a programmer you're going to probably constantly be re-writing code and the best method would be to save a template or other etc. I also know that it's ok to use other people's code to help you do something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type the code or study it until YOU learn how to do it and you actually understand why you would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing to attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know this ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I could study it if needed. I agree that while learning the language in question, typing from scratch is
a good practice, but consider this: As long as you know that the code you are copying is correct, you can learn the same (if not more) by reverse engineering what you've copied. I learned to program in the 80's by taking the code from the video games I played (written in BASIC) and searching for all occurences of the number 3 in that code. When I found a 3, I changed it to a 10. Why? Because I wanted the game to give me 10 lives, rather than 3. By making changes to existing code, I was able to figure out what those lines of code did. Also consider that the first rule of professional programmers is: "Don't type what you can steal!" Good luck! Show quoteHide quote "Michael" <Mich***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:D34C8DB9-6252-49C5-87BB-2B17B8AAF8D7@microsoft.com... > Hey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question about > learning any programming language. I understand that as a programmer > you're > going to probably constantly be re-writing code and the best method would > be > to save a template or other etc. I also know that it's ok to use other > people's code to help you do something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type > the code or study it until YOU learn how to do it and you actually > understand > why you would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing > to > attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know this > ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I could study > it > if needed. You may learn as you get deeper into this that much of the code that is
now included as libraries for a development environment actually were things that the programmer had to code himself. So, in effect, if you are utilizing these libraries then you are using someone else's code. In C++ you can read through much of that code and learn from it. Understanding what it is doing is extremely valuable. To take the math example from school, we all learn how to add, subtract, multiply and divide, then we turn around and use a calculator. But we understand enough about what the calculator is doing that we can spot apparent errors. That's what programming is like - understand what these libraries and components are doing, then let them do the grunt work for you. Many times, I'll set up generic forms that I will include in new projects and then modify for the actual need. But all my forms have to have a small set of basic functionality. Class modules don't always follow such an easy mold because they are more application specific. Tom Michael wrote: Show quoteHide quote >Hey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question about >learning any programming language. I understand that as a programmer you're >going to probably constantly be re-writing code and the best method would be >to save a template or other etc. I also know that it's ok to use other >people's code to help you do something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type >the code or study it until YOU learn how to do it and you actually understand >why you would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing to >attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know this >ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I could study it >if needed. > > As a programming teacher, I've seen just about everything mentioned
here. What I'd like to say is that PROGRAMMERS WRITE CODE! If you can write the code, then you understand the principle. What I often do is teach the principle, then give a word problem program (Write a program where the user enters numbers in each of two text boxes, and when the "Compute" button is pressed, the sum of the numbers shows up in a third text box.) (A week or two later, I add "and check each input check box for valid numeric input - show error message if either/boxes invalid) This forces the student to convert an idea into code. I generally set up ten to fifteen such word problems for a class. It bugs the students at first, because the teacher can talk/teach for hours, but often the student, when faced with writing code, is totally lost and can't seem to get started. It is a process that takes practice. Lacking a teacher or programmer friend who can give you some problems, make up your own. Invent a program that uses what you just learned and try to write the code. Or find a text that word-problem-type challenges at the end of the chapter. My experience with students typing in good code from the book has been horrible! It might as well be a typing class - They don't get it! Students who only type code don't read it, don't understand it and can't even write the same code 10 minutes later. Reading to understand and picking apart each section of code is good. All ways of learning have value, but in my experience, solving word problems is one of the most efficient, fast ways to gain mastery of programming. Michael wrote: Show quoteHide quote > Hey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question about > learning any programming language. I understand that as a programmer you're > going to probably constantly be re-writing code and the best method would be > to save a template or other etc. I also know that it's ok to use other > people's code to help you do something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type > the code or study it until YOU learn how to do it and you actually understand > why you would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing to > attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know this > ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I could study it > if needed. Well said!
T richardv2 wrote: Show quoteHide quote >As a programming teacher, I've seen just about everything mentioned >here. What I'd like to say is that PROGRAMMERS WRITE CODE! If you can >write the code, then you understand the principle. > >What I often do is teach the principle, then give a word problem >program (Write a program where the user enters numbers in each of two >text boxes, and when the "Compute" button is pressed, the sum of the >numbers shows up in a third text box.) >(A week or two later, I add "and check each input check box for valid >numeric input - show error message if either/boxes invalid) > >This forces the student to convert an idea into code. I generally set >up ten to fifteen such word problems for a class. It bugs the students >at first, because the teacher can talk/teach for hours, but often the >student, when faced with writing code, is totally lost and can't seem >to get started. It is a process that takes practice. Lacking a teacher >or programmer friend who can give you some problems, make up your own. > >Invent a program that uses what you just learned and try to write the >code. Or find a text that word-problem-type challenges at the end of >the chapter. > >My experience with students typing in good code from the book has been >horrible! It might as well be a typing class - They don't get it! >Students who only type code don't read it, don't understand it and >can't even write the same code 10 minutes later. > >Reading to understand and picking apart each section of code is good. > >All ways of learning have value, but in my experience, solving word >problems is one of the most efficient, fast ways to gain mastery of >programming. > > >Michael wrote: > > >>Hey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question about >>learning any programming language. I understand that as a programmer you're >>going to probably constantly be re-writing code and the best method would be >>to save a template or other etc. I also know that it's ok to use other >>people's code to help you do something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type >>the code or study it until YOU learn how to do it and you actually understand >>why you would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing to >>attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know this >>ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I could study it >>if needed. >> >> > > > Hello richardv2,
I disagree. As a professional programmer I can say with authority that programmers do not write code. Idiots straight out of college write code. Programmers solve problems. It may seem here like I am splitting hairs, but I'm not. I've known many so-called programmers that couldn't solve a simple business problem. They could however take somebody else's solution and bang out code. This type of fill-in-the-blank programming isn't helpful in the least. This kind of mentality is the #1 reason I have new hires either fired or transferred. Instead of teaching people how to write code.. our educational system would be doing them, and real programmers, a great service in teaching people how to think for themselves, how to solve problems. Second.. A programmer doesn't write code. A programmer drinks beer.. A programmer reads documentation.. A programmer doodles in a notebook. Too many times do I see a code monkey (I can't even call them programmers) get an assignment and 10 minutes later they are at their desk bangin away at the keyboard. How is one supposed to think if they are typing? How is one supposed to design a system in code if they haven't even designed it in English yet? It's madness, I say! MADNESS! So.. get your assignment.. grab a notebook and pen.. go to your local pub and down a pint.. desgn the system on paper and solve yer problems in ENGLISH. Once you have done that then, AND ONLY THEN, is it ok to go back to your desk and write code. The point of this rant is that Programmers spend at most 20% of their time writing code. The rest is spent solving problems at a location where the most advanced peice of technology is a juke box. -Boo Show quoteHide quote > As a programming teacher, I've seen just about everything mentioned > here. What I'd like to say is that PROGRAMMERS WRITE CODE! If you can > write the code, then you understand the principle. > > What I often do is teach the principle, then give a word problem > program (Write a program where the user enters numbers in each of two > text boxes, and when the "Compute" button is pressed, the sum of the > numbers shows up in a third text box.) > (A week or two later, I add "and check each input check box for valid > numeric input - show error message if either/boxes invalid) > This forces the student to convert an idea into code. I generally set > up ten to fifteen such word problems for a class. It bugs the students > at first, because the teacher can talk/teach for hours, but often the > student, when faced with writing code, is totally lost and can't seem > to get started. It is a process that takes practice. Lacking a teacher > or programmer friend who can give you some problems, make up your own. > > Invent a program that uses what you just learned and try to write the > code. Or find a text that word-problem-type challenges at the end of > the chapter. > > My experience with students typing in good code from the book has been > horrible! It might as well be a typing class - They don't get it! > Students who only type code don't read it, don't understand it and > can't even write the same code 10 minutes later. > > Reading to understand and picking apart each section of code is good. > > All ways of learning have value, but in my experience, solving word > problems is one of the most efficient, fast ways to gain mastery of > programming. > > Michael wrote: > >> Hey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question >> about learning any programming language. I understand that as a >> programmer you're going to probably constantly be re-writing code and >> the best method would be to save a template or other etc. I also >> know that it's ok to use other people's code to help you do >> something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type the code or study it >> until YOU learn how to do it and you actually understand why you >> would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing to >> attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know >> this ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I >> could study it if needed. >> i know what you mean!
i used to work for a small software house, where, if i was writing code the secretary would never interrupt me, but if i was thinking - trying to come up with a solution - she would start rabbiting about the weather or whatever - because i wasnt doing anything - a good reason for going down the pub! Show quoteHide quote "GhostInAK" wrote: > Hello richardv2, > > I disagree. As a professional programmer I can say with authority that programmers > do not write code. Idiots straight out of college write code. Programmers > solve problems. It may seem here like I am splitting hairs, but I'm not. > I've known many so-called programmers that couldn't solve a simple business > problem. They could however take somebody else's solution and bang out code. > This type of fill-in-the-blank programming isn't helpful in the least. > This kind of mentality is the #1 reason I have new hires either fired or > transferred. > > Instead of teaching people how to write code.. our educational system would > be doing them, and real programmers, a great service in teaching people how > to think for themselves, how to solve problems. > > Second.. A programmer doesn't write code. A programmer drinks beer.. A programmer > reads documentation.. A programmer doodles in a notebook. Too many times > do I see a code monkey (I can't even call them programmers) get an assignment > and 10 minutes later they are at their desk bangin away at the keyboard. > How is one supposed to think if they are typing? How is one supposed to > design a system in code if they haven't even designed it in English yet? > It's madness, I say! MADNESS! So.. get your assignment.. grab a notebook > and pen.. go to your local pub and down a pint.. desgn the system on paper > and solve yer problems in ENGLISH. Once you have done that then, AND ONLY > THEN, is it ok to go back to your desk and write code. The point of this > rant is that Programmers spend at most 20% of their time writing code. The > rest is spent solving problems at a location where the most advanced peice > of technology is a juke box. > > -Boo > > > As a programming teacher, I've seen just about everything mentioned > > here. What I'd like to say is that PROGRAMMERS WRITE CODE! If you can > > write the code, then you understand the principle. > > > > What I often do is teach the principle, then give a word problem > > program (Write a program where the user enters numbers in each of two > > text boxes, and when the "Compute" button is pressed, the sum of the > > numbers shows up in a third text box.) > > (A week or two later, I add "and check each input check box for valid > > numeric input - show error message if either/boxes invalid) > > This forces the student to convert an idea into code. I generally set > > up ten to fifteen such word problems for a class. It bugs the students > > at first, because the teacher can talk/teach for hours, but often the > > student, when faced with writing code, is totally lost and can't seem > > to get started. It is a process that takes practice. Lacking a teacher > > or programmer friend who can give you some problems, make up your own. > > > > Invent a program that uses what you just learned and try to write the > > code. Or find a text that word-problem-type challenges at the end of > > the chapter. > > > > My experience with students typing in good code from the book has been > > horrible! It might as well be a typing class - They don't get it! > > Students who only type code don't read it, don't understand it and > > can't even write the same code 10 minutes later. > > > > Reading to understand and picking apart each section of code is good. > > > > All ways of learning have value, but in my experience, solving word > > problems is one of the most efficient, fast ways to gain mastery of > > programming. > > > > Michael wrote: > > > >> Hey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question > >> about learning any programming language. I understand that as a > >> programmer you're going to probably constantly be re-writing code and > >> the best method would be to save a template or other etc. I also > >> know that it's ok to use other people's code to help you do > >> something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type the code or study it > >> until YOU learn how to do it and you actually understand why you > >> would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing to > >> attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know > >> this ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I > >> could study it if needed. > >> > > > Michael,
I find this a very nice thread, all three contributors add something in what I completely agree. To add a little bit. There is so much intellisence now, that typing would not help you. There are so many things where I don't know the exact property or whatever for. A simple thing: I often have without intellisence a problem if it the length of something is a "count" or a "length". To start typing an "Hello World" program is of course one thing you should do because otherwise you even don't know the features which help you typing. Just my 2 eurocents Cor Show quoteHide quote "Michael" <Mich***@discussions.microsoft.com> schreef in bericht news:D34C8DB9-6252-49C5-87BB-2B17B8AAF8D7@microsoft.com... > Hey, I'm, I guess, an itermediate programmer and I have a question about > learning any programming language. I understand that as a programmer > you're > going to probably constantly be re-writing code and the best method would > be > to save a template or other etc. I also know that it's ok to use other > people's code to help you do something, but wouldn't it be best to re-type > the code or study it until YOU learn how to do it and you actually > understand > why you would use that code? This is currently my method and I'm fixing > to > attend a college to study computer science and I was wanting to know this > ahead of time so I wouldn't waste time re-typing the code or I could study > it > if needed. 
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