|
web
newsgroups
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
OO design and programming...Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server 2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the classes etc... So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new stuff!!! Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can determine the data required and methods for each class - which will then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class design. The physical db will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 design. I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the same so just an overall OO design book would be good. Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be yet another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to create new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am having a hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! Thanks, Brad You should design the data structures first, which leads
to your business layer classes, and then the UI. To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation to someone else: Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are supposed to be definitive. Robin S. -------------------------------- Show quoteHide quote "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo an >Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server 2000 - >so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. > > I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO > techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the > classes etc... > > So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it is > a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used before > such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a little mind > boggling to be doing a big project using all this new stuff!!! > > Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing > application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will be > for the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can determine > the data required and methods for each class - which will then lead to the > physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class design. The physical > db will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 design. > > I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this all > the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? > > I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - leaning > towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the same so just > an overall OO design book would be good. > > Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference material > for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many classes do > I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for instance. The > parent would be one class and the children would be yet another class - > but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. Figuring out how > many classes and their relationships - when to create new classes or > include all the data in one class is what I am having a hard time with. > (when to subclass and when not to...) > > Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! > > Thanks, Brad > How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of getting it
early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a good reference handy... Thanks for the help. Show quoteHide quote "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... > You should design the data structures first, which leads > to your business layer classes, and then the UI. > > To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation > to someone else: > > Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects > in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and > design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. > You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear > and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. > It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project > settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. > > Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are > supposed to be definitive. > > Robin S. > -------------------------------- > "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo an >>Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server >>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. >> >> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO >> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the >> classes etc... >> >> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it is >> a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used before >> such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a little mind >> boggling to be doing a big project using all this new stuff!!! >> >> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing >> application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will be >> for the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can determine >> the data required and methods for each class - which will then lead to >> the physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class design. The >> physical db will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 design. >> >> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this >> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? >> >> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - leaning >> towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the same so just >> an overall OO design book would be good. >> >> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference material >> for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many classes do >> I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for instance. The >> parent would be one class and the children would be yet another class - >> but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. Figuring out how >> many classes and their relationships - when to create new classes or >> include all the data in one class is what I am having a hard time with. >> (when to subclass and when not to...) >> >> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! >> >> Thanks, Brad >> > > I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group.
I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so I offered to read it for content and work through all the example work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else I read after that. On the bright side, January is not very far away? If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, from what I understand. If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. Robin S. -------------------------- Show quoteHide quote "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of getting > it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a good > reference handy... > > Thanks for the help. > > > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... >> You should design the data structures first, which leads >> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. >> >> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation >> to someone else: >> >> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects >> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and >> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. >> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear >> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. >> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project >> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. >> >> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are >> supposed to be definitive. >> >> Robin S. >> -------------------------------- >> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message >> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo an >>>Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server >>>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. >>> >>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO >>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the >>> classes etc... >>> >>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it >>> is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used >>> before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a >>> little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new >>> stuff!!! >>> >>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing >>> application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will be >>> for the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can determine >>> the data required and methods for each class - which will then lead to >>> the physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class design. The >>> physical db will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 design. >>> >>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this >>> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? >>> >>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - >>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the same >>> so just an overall OO design book would be good. >>> >>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference material >>> for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many classes >>> do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for instance. The >>> parent would be one class and the children would be yet another class - >>> but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. Figuring out how >>> many classes and their relationships - when to create new classes or >>> include all the data in one class is what I am having a hard time with. >>> (when to subclass and when not to...) >>> >>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! >>> >>> Thanks, Brad >>> >> >> > > My creds -- I led a project to convert the largest ever Access application
to .Net; I know both Deborah and Rocky and respect their talents... First, I feel your pain! Second, question the move at all. Access is not going away soon. I'll assume you have done so and decided it is necessary. Third, do not let your management underestimate the magnitude of the task (I don't think _you_ are). If the Access app is indeed very large, you are in for a ride. We spent well over $2MM to convert our app. If you was me, I'd take RobinS' advice, in a way. I'd glom onto to Rocky's framework and use it as the basis of your redesign. I don't know it intimately, but I know that Rocky is one smart guy. So you get his wisdom -- and framework -- for the price of a book (actually the framework is down-loadable for free from his website). Next, I'd get some VB.Net mentoring. Nothing intensive, but a couple of days would save you a couple of months if someone walked you through VisualStudio (2005) and the basics of VB.Net and the .Net framework. You'll be amazed at how much you already know -- and can discover via intellisense--, but there is a paradigm shift and once you grok it you are on your way. There is a ton of info on MSDN and GotDotNet -- so much so that it is overwhelming at first. I would suggest that you do accept the fact that you need to rewrite the app and forget about any magical translation. And don't look back. Good luck! HTH, Prester John P.S. I don't frequent the discussion groups very often -- email me, if you want to, at PresterJ***@Comast.Net Show quoteHide quote "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message news:0eydnV8OOcmltfvYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group. > I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so > I offered to read it for content and work through all the example > work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm > sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It > does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything > together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from > VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. > Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else > I read after that. > > On the bright side, January is not very far away? > > If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; > it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong > version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That > version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, > from what I understand. > > If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can > get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. > > Robin S. > -------------------------- > > "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of getting >> it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a good >> reference handy... >> >> Thanks for the help. >> >> >> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message >> news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>> You should design the data structures first, which leads >>> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. >>> >>> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation >>> to someone else: >>> >>> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects >>> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and >>> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. >>> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear >>> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. >>> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project >>> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. >>> >>> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are >>> supposed to be definitive. >>> >>> Robin S. >>> -------------------------------- >>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message >>> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo an >>>>Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server >>>>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. >>>> >>>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO >>>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the >>>> classes etc... >>>> >>>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it >>>> is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used >>>> before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a >>>> little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new >>>> stuff!!! >>>> >>>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing >>>> application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will >>>> be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can >>>> determine the data required and methods for each class - which will >>>> then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class >>>> design. The physical db will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 >>>> design. >>>> >>>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this >>>> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? >>>> >>>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - >>>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the >>>> same so just an overall OO design book would be good. >>>> >>>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference >>>> material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many >>>> classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for >>>> instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be yet >>>> another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. >>>> Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to create >>>> new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am having a >>>> hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) >>>> >>>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! >>>> >>>> Thanks, Brad >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Thanks John. I really appreciate your advice (as I also said to Robin!). I
will follow it! You have both been very helpful. PS.. Yes, the decision was made to move everything over to SQL Server and to standardize on vb .net apps. We don't have a whole lot of stuff left in Access so better to do it now than continue to write more in Access and convert later. PSS.. What is the specific book name by Rocky that you refer to?? Brad Show quoteHide quote "Prester John" <presterj***@comcast.net> wrote in message news:e4idnb0cOqkOLPvYnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@comcast.com... > My creds -- I led a project to convert the largest ever Access application > to .Net; I know both Deborah and Rocky and respect their talents... > > First, I feel your pain! > > Second, question the move at all. Access is not going away soon. I'll > assume you have done so and decided it is necessary. > > Third, do not let your management underestimate the magnitude of the task > (I don't think _you_ are). If the Access app is indeed very large, you > are in for a ride. We spent well over $2MM to convert our app. > > If you was me, I'd take RobinS' advice, in a way. I'd glom onto to > Rocky's framework and use it as the basis of your redesign. I don't know > it intimately, but I know that Rocky is one smart guy. So you get his > wisdom -- and framework -- for the price of a book (actually the > framework is down-loadable for free from his website). > > Next, I'd get some VB.Net mentoring. Nothing intensive, but a couple of > days would save you a couple of months if someone walked you through > VisualStudio (2005) and the basics of VB.Net and the .Net framework. > You'll be amazed at how much you already know -- and can discover via > intellisense--, but there is a paradigm shift and once you grok it you are > on your way. There is a ton of info on MSDN and GotDotNet -- so much so > that it is overwhelming at first. > > I would suggest that you do accept the fact that you need to rewrite the > app and forget about any magical translation. And don't look back. > > Good luck! > > HTH, > > Prester John > > P.S. I don't frequent the discussion groups very often -- email me, if > you want to, at PresterJ***@Comast.Net > > > > > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > news:0eydnV8OOcmltfvYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group. >> I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so >> I offered to read it for content and work through all the example >> work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm >> sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It >> does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything >> together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from >> VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. >> Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else >> I read after that. >> >> On the bright side, January is not very far away? >> >> If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; >> it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong >> version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That >> version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, >> from what I understand. >> >> If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can >> get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. >> >> Robin S. >> -------------------------- >> >> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message >> news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of >>> getting it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a >>> good reference handy... >>> >>> Thanks for the help. >>> >>> >>> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message >>> news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>>> You should design the data structures first, which leads >>>> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. >>>> >>>> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation >>>> to someone else: >>>> >>>> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects >>>> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and >>>> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. >>>> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear >>>> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. >>>> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project >>>> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. >>>> >>>> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are >>>> supposed to be definitive. >>>> >>>> Robin S. >>>> -------------------------------- >>>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message >>>> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo >>>>>an Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server >>>>>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. >>>>> >>>>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO >>>>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the >>>>> classes etc... >>>>> >>>>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it >>>>> is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used >>>>> before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a >>>>> little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new >>>>> stuff!!! >>>>> >>>>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the >>>>> existing application and try to extract from that what some of my >>>>> classes will be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from >>>>> that I can determine the data required and methods for each class - >>>>> which will then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to >>>>> facilitate my class design. The physical db will be WAY different than >>>>> the old Access 2000 design. >>>>> >>>>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this >>>>> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? >>>>> >>>>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - >>>>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the >>>>> same so just an overall OO design book would be good. >>>>> >>>>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference >>>>> material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how >>>>> many classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for >>>>> instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be yet >>>>> another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. >>>>> Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to create >>>>> new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am having a >>>>> hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) >>>>> >>>>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Brad >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
http://www.amazon.com/Expert-2005-Business-Objects-Second/dp/1590596315/sr=8-2/qid=1164402020/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/002-2858380-8860814?ie=UTF8&s=books
Rockford Lhotka. Expert VB 2005 Business Objects. Robin S. ------------------------------------ Show quoteHide quote "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message news:eMkAGHAEHHA.4620@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Thanks John. I really appreciate your advice (as I also said to Robin!). I > will follow it! > > You have both been very helpful. > > PS.. Yes, the decision was made to move everything over to SQL Server and > to standardize on vb .net apps. We don't have a whole lot of stuff left in > Access so better to do it now than continue to write more in Access and > convert later. > > PSS.. What is the specific book name by Rocky that you refer to?? > > Brad > > "Prester John" <presterj***@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:e4idnb0cOqkOLPvYnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@comcast.com... >> My creds -- I led a project to convert the largest ever Access >> application to .Net; I know both Deborah and Rocky and respect their >> talents... >> >> First, I feel your pain! >> >> Second, question the move at all. Access is not going away soon. I'll >> assume you have done so and decided it is necessary. >> >> Third, do not let your management underestimate the magnitude of the task >> (I don't think _you_ are). If the Access app is indeed very large, you >> are in for a ride. We spent well over $2MM to convert our app. >> >> If you was me, I'd take RobinS' advice, in a way. I'd glom onto to >> Rocky's framework and use it as the basis of your redesign. I don't know >> it intimately, but I know that Rocky is one smart guy. So you get his >> wisdom -- and framework -- for the price of a book (actually the >> framework is down-loadable for free from his website). >> >> Next, I'd get some VB.Net mentoring. Nothing intensive, but a couple of >> days would save you a couple of months if someone walked you through >> VisualStudio (2005) and the basics of VB.Net and the .Net framework. >> You'll be amazed at how much you already know -- and can discover via >> intellisense--, but there is a paradigm shift and once you grok it you >> are on your way. There is a ton of info on MSDN and GotDotNet -- so much >> so that it is overwhelming at first. >> >> I would suggest that you do accept the fact that you need to rewrite the >> app and forget about any magical translation. And don't look back. >> >> Good luck! >> >> HTH, >> >> Prester John >> >> P.S. I don't frequent the discussion groups very often -- email me, if >> you want to, at PresterJ***@Comast.Net >> >> >> >> >> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message >> news:0eydnV8OOcmltfvYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>>I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group. >>> I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so >>> I offered to read it for content and work through all the example >>> work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm >>> sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It >>> does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything >>> together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from >>> VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. >>> Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else >>> I read after that. >>> >>> On the bright side, January is not very far away? >>> >>> If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; >>> it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong >>> version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That >>> version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, >>> from what I understand. >>> >>> If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can >>> get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. >>> >>> Robin S. >>> -------------------------- >>> >>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message >>> news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of >>>> getting it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a >>>> good reference handy... >>>> >>>> Thanks for the help. >>>> >>>> >>>> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message >>>> news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>>>> You should design the data structures first, which leads >>>>> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. >>>>> >>>>> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation >>>>> to someone else: >>>>> >>>>> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects >>>>> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and >>>>> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. >>>>> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear >>>>> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. >>>>> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project >>>>> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. >>>>> >>>>> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are >>>>> supposed to be definitive. >>>>> >>>>> Robin S. >>>>> -------------------------------- >>>>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo >>>>>>an Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL >>>>>>Server 2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app >>>>>>will work. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO >>>>>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the >>>>>> classes etc... >>>>>> >>>>>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as >>>>>> it is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never >>>>>> used before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It >>>>>> is a little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this >>>>>> new stuff!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the >>>>>> existing application and try to extract from that what some of my >>>>>> classes will be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from >>>>>> that I can determine the data required and methods for each class - >>>>>> which will then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to >>>>>> facilitate my class design. The physical db will be WAY different >>>>>> than the old Access 2000 design. >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in >>>>>> this all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - >>>>>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the >>>>>> same so just an overall OO design book would be good. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference >>>>>> material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how >>>>>> many classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship >>>>>> for instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be >>>>>> yet another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. >>>>>> etc.. Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to >>>>>> create new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am >>>>>> having a hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) >>>>>> >>>>>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Brad >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > you just should use Access Data Projects; it is a much much simpler
environment and much much more productive than VB.net -Aaron Brad Pears wrote: Show quoteHide quote > Thanks John. I really appreciate your advice (as I also said to Robin!). I > will follow it! > > You have both been very helpful. > > PS.. Yes, the decision was made to move everything over to SQL Server and to > standardize on vb .net apps. We don't have a whole lot of stuff left in > Access so better to do it now than continue to write more in Access and > convert later. > > PSS.. What is the specific book name by Rocky that you refer to?? > > Brad > > "Prester John" <presterj***@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:e4idnb0cOqkOLPvYnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@comcast.com... > > My creds -- I led a project to convert the largest ever Access application > > to .Net; I know both Deborah and Rocky and respect their talents... > > > > First, I feel your pain! > > > > Second, question the move at all. Access is not going away soon. I'll > > assume you have done so and decided it is necessary. > > > > Third, do not let your management underestimate the magnitude of the task > > (I don't think _you_ are). If the Access app is indeed very large, you > > are in for a ride. We spent well over $2MM to convert our app. > > > > If you was me, I'd take RobinS' advice, in a way. I'd glom onto to > > Rocky's framework and use it as the basis of your redesign. I don't know > > it intimately, but I know that Rocky is one smart guy. So you get his > > wisdom -- and framework -- for the price of a book (actually the > > framework is down-loadable for free from his website). > > > > Next, I'd get some VB.Net mentoring. Nothing intensive, but a couple of > > days would save you a couple of months if someone walked you through > > VisualStudio (2005) and the basics of VB.Net and the .Net framework. > > You'll be amazed at how much you already know -- and can discover via > > intellisense--, but there is a paradigm shift and once you grok it you are > > on your way. There is a ton of info on MSDN and GotDotNet -- so much so > > that it is overwhelming at first. > > > > I would suggest that you do accept the fact that you need to rewrite the > > app and forget about any magical translation. And don't look back. > > > > Good luck! > > > > HTH, > > > > Prester John > > > > P.S. I don't frequent the discussion groups very often -- email me, if > > you want to, at PresterJ***@Comast.Net > > > > > > > > > > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > > news:0eydnV8OOcmltfvYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com... > >>I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group. > >> I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so > >> I offered to read it for content and work through all the example > >> work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm > >> sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It > >> does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything > >> together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from > >> VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. > >> Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else > >> I read after that. > >> > >> On the bright side, January is not very far away? > >> > >> If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; > >> it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong > >> version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That > >> version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, > >> from what I understand. > >> > >> If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can > >> get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. > >> > >> Robin S. > >> -------------------------- > >> > >> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > >> news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > >>> How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of > >>> getting it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a > >>> good reference handy... > >>> > >>> Thanks for the help. > >>> > >>> > >>> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > >>> news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... > >>>> You should design the data structures first, which leads > >>>> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. > >>>> > >>>> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation > >>>> to someone else: > >>>> > >>>> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects > >>>> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and > >>>> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. > >>>> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear > >>>> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. > >>>> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project > >>>> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. > >>>> > >>>> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are > >>>> supposed to be definitive. > >>>> > >>>> Robin S. > >>>> -------------------------------- > >>>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > >>>> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > >>>>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo > >>>>>an Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server > >>>>>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO > >>>>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the > >>>>> classes etc... > >>>>> > >>>>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it > >>>>> is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used > >>>>> before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a > >>>>> little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new > >>>>> stuff!!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the > >>>>> existing application and try to extract from that what some of my > >>>>> classes will be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from > >>>>> that I can determine the data required and methods for each class - > >>>>> which will then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to > >>>>> facilitate my class design. The physical db will be WAY different than > >>>>> the old Access 2000 design. > >>>>> > >>>>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this > >>>>> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? > >>>>> > >>>>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - > >>>>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the > >>>>> same so just an overall OO design book would be good. > >>>>> > >>>>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference > >>>>> material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how > >>>>> many classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for > >>>>> instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be yet > >>>>> another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. > >>>>> Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to create > >>>>> new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am having a > >>>>> hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) > >>>>> > >>>>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, Brad > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > you just should use Access Data Projects; it is a much much simpler
environment and much much more productive than VB.net -Larry Linson Jr ADP Nationalist Brad Pears wrote: Show quoteHide quote > Thanks John. I really appreciate your advice (as I also said to Robin!). I > will follow it! > > You have both been very helpful. > > PS.. Yes, the decision was made to move everything over to SQL Server and to > standardize on vb .net apps. We don't have a whole lot of stuff left in > Access so better to do it now than continue to write more in Access and > convert later. > > PSS.. What is the specific book name by Rocky that you refer to?? > > Brad > > "Prester John" <presterj***@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:e4idnb0cOqkOLPvYnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@comcast.com... > > My creds -- I led a project to convert the largest ever Access application > > to .Net; I know both Deborah and Rocky and respect their talents... > > > > First, I feel your pain! > > > > Second, question the move at all. Access is not going away soon. I'll > > assume you have done so and decided it is necessary. > > > > Third, do not let your management underestimate the magnitude of the task > > (I don't think _you_ are). If the Access app is indeed very large, you > > are in for a ride. We spent well over $2MM to convert our app. > > > > If you was me, I'd take RobinS' advice, in a way. I'd glom onto to > > Rocky's framework and use it as the basis of your redesign. I don't know > > it intimately, but I know that Rocky is one smart guy. So you get his > > wisdom -- and framework -- for the price of a book (actually the > > framework is down-loadable for free from his website). > > > > Next, I'd get some VB.Net mentoring. Nothing intensive, but a couple of > > days would save you a couple of months if someone walked you through > > VisualStudio (2005) and the basics of VB.Net and the .Net framework. > > You'll be amazed at how much you already know -- and can discover via > > intellisense--, but there is a paradigm shift and once you grok it you are > > on your way. There is a ton of info on MSDN and GotDotNet -- so much so > > that it is overwhelming at first. > > > > I would suggest that you do accept the fact that you need to rewrite the > > app and forget about any magical translation. And don't look back. > > > > Good luck! > > > > HTH, > > > > Prester John > > > > P.S. I don't frequent the discussion groups very often -- email me, if > > you want to, at PresterJ***@Comast.Net > > > > > > > > > > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > > news:0eydnV8OOcmltfvYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com... > >>I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group. > >> I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so > >> I offered to read it for content and work through all the example > >> work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm > >> sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It > >> does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything > >> together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from > >> VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. > >> Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else > >> I read after that. > >> > >> On the bright side, January is not very far away? > >> > >> If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; > >> it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong > >> version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That > >> version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, > >> from what I understand. > >> > >> If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can > >> get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. > >> > >> Robin S. > >> -------------------------- > >> > >> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > >> news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > >>> How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of > >>> getting it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a > >>> good reference handy... > >>> > >>> Thanks for the help. > >>> > >>> > >>> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > >>> news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... > >>>> You should design the data structures first, which leads > >>>> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. > >>>> > >>>> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation > >>>> to someone else: > >>>> > >>>> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects > >>>> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and > >>>> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. > >>>> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear > >>>> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. > >>>> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project > >>>> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. > >>>> > >>>> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are > >>>> supposed to be definitive. > >>>> > >>>> Robin S. > >>>> -------------------------------- > >>>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > >>>> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > >>>>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo > >>>>>an Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server > >>>>>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO > >>>>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the > >>>>> classes etc... > >>>>> > >>>>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it > >>>>> is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used > >>>>> before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a > >>>>> little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new > >>>>> stuff!!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the > >>>>> existing application and try to extract from that what some of my > >>>>> classes will be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from > >>>>> that I can determine the data required and methods for each class - > >>>>> which will then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to > >>>>> facilitate my class design. The physical db will be WAY different than > >>>>> the old Access 2000 design. > >>>>> > >>>>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this > >>>>> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? > >>>>> > >>>>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - > >>>>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the > >>>>> same so just an overall OO design book would be good. > >>>>> > >>>>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference > >>>>> material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how > >>>>> many classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for > >>>>> instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be yet > >>>>> another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. > >>>>> Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to create > >>>>> new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am having a > >>>>> hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) > >>>>> > >>>>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, Brad > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > the largest Access app ever??
you should have just used Access Data Projects; I probably could have made your project _MORE_SCALABLE_ for a measly 100k Larry Linson Jr ADP Nationalist Prester John wrote: Show quoteHide quote > My creds -- I led a project to convert the largest ever Access application > to .Net; I know both Deborah and Rocky and respect their talents... > > First, I feel your pain! > > Second, question the move at all. Access is not going away soon. I'll > assume you have done so and decided it is necessary. > > Third, do not let your management underestimate the magnitude of the task (I > don't think _you_ are). If the Access app is indeed very large, you are in > for a ride. We spent well over $2MM to convert our app. > > If you was me, I'd take RobinS' advice, in a way. I'd glom onto to Rocky's > framework and use it as the basis of your redesign. I don't know it > intimately, but I know that Rocky is one smart guy. So you get his wisdom -- > and framework -- for the price of a book (actually the framework is > down-loadable for free from his website). > > Next, I'd get some VB.Net mentoring. Nothing intensive, but a couple of > days would save you a couple of months if someone walked you through > VisualStudio (2005) and the basics of VB.Net and the .Net framework. You'll > be amazed at how much you already know -- and can discover via > intellisense--, but there is a paradigm shift and once you grok it you are > on your way. There is a ton of info on MSDN and GotDotNet -- so much so > that it is overwhelming at first. > > I would suggest that you do accept the fact that you need to rewrite the app > and forget about any magical translation. And don't look back. > > Good luck! > > HTH, > > Prester John > > P.S. I don't frequent the discussion groups very often -- email me, if you > want to, at PresterJ***@Comast.Net > > > > > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > news:0eydnV8OOcmltfvYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com... > >I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group. > > I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so > > I offered to read it for content and work through all the example > > work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm > > sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It > > does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything > > together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from > > VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. > > Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else > > I read after that. > > > > On the bright side, January is not very far away? > > > > If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; > > it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong > > version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That > > version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, > > from what I understand. > > > > If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can > > get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. > > > > Robin S. > > -------------------------- > > > > "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > > news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > >> How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of getting > >> it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a good > >> reference handy... > >> > >> Thanks for the help. > >> > >> > >> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > >> news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... > >>> You should design the data structures first, which leads > >>> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. > >>> > >>> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation > >>> to someone else: > >>> > >>> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects > >>> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and > >>> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. > >>> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear > >>> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. > >>> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project > >>> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. > >>> > >>> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are > >>> supposed to be definitive. > >>> > >>> Robin S. > >>> -------------------------------- > >>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > >>> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > >>>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo an > >>>>Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server > >>>>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. > >>>> > >>>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO > >>>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the > >>>> classes etc... > >>>> > >>>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it > >>>> is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used > >>>> before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a > >>>> little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new > >>>> stuff!!! > >>>> > >>>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing > >>>> application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will > >>>> be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can > >>>> determine the data required and methods for each class - which will > >>>> then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class > >>>> design. The physical db will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 > >>>> design. > >>>> > >>>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this > >>>> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? > >>>> > >>>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - > >>>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the > >>>> same so just an overall OO design book would be good. > >>>> > >>>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference > >>>> material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many > >>>> classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for > >>>> instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be yet > >>>> another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. > >>>> Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to create > >>>> new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am having a > >>>> hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) > >>>> > >>>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, Brad > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > Thanks Robin. I really appreciate your advice. I will follow it!
Brad Show quoteHide quote "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message news:0eydnV8OOcmltfvYnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >I knew Deborah because she's the head of my local .Net User Group. > I had some extra time, and knew she was working on her book, so > I offered to read it for content and work through all the example > work. It was a great opportunity for both of us. :-D So I'm > sorry, but it's not going to be available until January. It > does sound like exactly what you need. It really brought everything > together for me, and was the foundation for me making the jump from > VB6 to VB.Net. It explained classes and inheritance and objects. > Reading it made it easier for me to understand everything else > I read after that. > > On the bright side, January is not very far away? > > If you're desperate, you could check out her VB6 for Objects book; > it's available on amazon for like 67 cents. It's in the wrong > version of the language, but you'd get the general idea. That > version has a lot more information on the analysis/design stage, > from what I understand. > > If I hear anything about it coming out sooner, or if I can > get my hands on an advance copy, I'll let you know next week. > > Robin S. > -------------------------- > > "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message > news:uBmM7TzDHHA.3660@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> How did you manage to see this book ahead of time?? Any chance of getting >> it early?? I am starting this now and would be nice to have a good >> reference handy... >> >> Thanks for the help. >> >> >> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message >> news:p8WdnR8FqummcfjYnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>> You should design the data structures first, which leads >>> to your business layer classes, and then the UI. >>> >>> To quote myself, I just posted the following recommendation >>> to someone else: >>> >>> Deborah Kurata has a book coming out in January called "Doing Objects >>> in VB2005". It explains the GUIDS methodology for analysis and >>> design, and then shows you explicitly how to set up your 3 layers. >>> You end up writing an entire application. I found the book clear >>> and concise, and a lot easier than reading an entire book on theory. >>> It also had a lot of neat things in it about saving your project >>> settings, code snippets, and bet of all, binding your data to objects. >>> >>> Rockford Lhotka also has some business objects books that are >>> supposed to be definitive. >>> >>> Robin S. >>> -------------------------------- >>> "Brad Pears" <donotre***@notreal.com> wrote in message >>> news:%23PZYk5yDHHA.4024@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>>>I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo an >>>>Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server >>>>2000 - so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. >>>> >>>> I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO >>>> techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the >>>> classes etc... >>>> >>>> So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it >>>> is a large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used >>>> before such as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a >>>> little mind boggling to be doing a big project using all this new >>>> stuff!!! >>>> >>>> Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing >>>> application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will >>>> be for the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can >>>> determine the data required and methods for each class - which will >>>> then lead to the physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class >>>> design. The physical db will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 >>>> design. >>>> >>>> I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this >>>> all the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? >>>> >>>> I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - >>>> leaning towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the >>>> same so just an overall OO design book would be good. >>>> >>>> Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference >>>> material for this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many >>>> classes do I really need to mimic a parent child relationship for >>>> instance. The parent would be one class and the children would be yet >>>> another class - but would it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. >>>> Figuring out how many classes and their relationships - when to create >>>> new classes or include all the data in one class is what I am having a >>>> hard time with. (when to subclass and when not to...) >>>> >>>> Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! >>>> >>>> Thanks, Brad >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > RobinS wrote:
> A little farther away than expected. Amazon shows that that book will> On the bright side, January is not very far away? > not be published until March 27, 2007!! :( It does sound like a nice book, though. Chris I talked to Deborah, and she confirmed that her information
had changed, and it would probably be March before the book was available. Sorry about that! Check out Rocky Lhotka's. Robin S. --------------------------------- Show quoteHide quote "Chris Dunaway" <dunaw***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1164645779.614707.269140@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > RobinS wrote: > >> >> On the bright side, January is not very far away? >> > > A little farther away than expected. Amazon shows that that book will > not be published until March 27, 2007!! :( > > It does sound like a nice book, though. > > Chris > I think C# is a more intuitive OO language. I will suggest you start
with it instead of VB. I disagree, especially if he already knows VBA and/or VB.
Robin S. ------------------------------ Show quoteHide quote "Thomas" <chao.f***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1164341292.793840.125640@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >I think C# is a more intuitive OO language. I will suggest you start > with it instead of VB. > I second this. VB is easier on the fingers syntactically and is quite
similar to VB 6/VB Script. I would definately take RobinS recommendation though but especially make sure those you are working for understand what a big change it is. Sometimes managers see the words "Upgrade Wizard" and assume this kind of job is a simple button click away from completion. Sometimes it's actually quicker to re-write the application from the ground-up than to fiddle around with existing code. Also remember what Prester John said: question the need to upgrade in the first place. Show quoteHide quote "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message news:9M-dnQbVmNDQBPvYnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@comcast.com... >I disagree, especially if he already knows VBA and/or VB. > Robin S. > ------------------------------ > "Thomas" <chao.f***@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1164341292.793840.125640@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >>I think C# is a more intuitive OO language. I will suggest you start >> with it instead of VB. >> > > Thomas,
Do you know both languages. VB.Net is in my idea definetly more OOP than C#. Cor Show quoteHide quote "Thomas" <chao.f***@gmail.com> schreef in bericht news:1164341292.793840.125640@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >I think C# is a more intuitive OO language. I will suggest you start > with it instead of VB. > I think C# is a more intuitive OO language. I will suggest you start
with it instead of VB. I think C# is a more intuitive OO language. I will suggest you start
with it instead of VB. OO is _WORTHLESS_
concentrate on a good client-server design on don't listen to the con-artists that want to sell you on OOP Brad Pears wrote: Show quoteHide quote > I am completely new to vb .net. I am using visual Studio 2005 to redo an > Access 2000 application into a .net OO application using SQL Server 2000 - > so a complete rewrite and re-thinking of how this app will work. > > I have NEVER done any OO programming at all although I have used OO > techniques in programs of course - just never actually designed the classes > etc... > > So I am just a tad nervous in re-writing this Access application as it is a > large app and I am learning so many new things I have never used before such > as vb.net, OO design, SQL server and Crystal!!! It is a little mind boggling > to be doing a big project using all this new stuff!!! > > Right now I figured the best place to start was to look at the existing > application and try to extract from that what some of my classes will be for > the new app and then add new classes. Then from that I can determine the > data required and methods for each class - which will then lead to the > physical SQL Server db design to facilitate my class design. The physical db > will be WAY different than the old Access 2000 design. > > I guess I am looking for a little guidance from those who work in this all > the time. Am I doing this in the right order basically ? > > I am also looking for a really god book on OO design principals - leaning > towards vb.net would be good but the principals are all the same so just an > overall OO design book would be good. > > Does any one know of a good one - or some really good reference material for > this on the internet? I am unsure of things like how many classes do I > really need to mimic a parent child relationship for instance. The parent > would be one class and the children would be yet another class - but would > it be a subclass of the parent etc.. etc.. Figuring out how many classes > and their relationships - when to create new classes or include all the data > in one class is what I am having a hard time with. (when to subclass and > when not to...) > > Any help at all would be most appreciated!!! > > Thanks, Brad 
Other interesting topics
Upgrade Question
Q: Regular Expressions? tell more about .net framework date time picker and validate event ( is this a bug ? ) Managing without .NET for runtime applications Drag and drop multiple button controls..need help modifying code please??? Automatic Form Fill in SQL connection problem Looking For Training Recommendations embem Excel in winford using vb.net |
|||||||||||||||||||||||
