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How do you translate your WinForms app? (outsourcing localization)have hardcoded all my text strings. Now, the application needs to be translated into another language. Furthermore, the translation must be done by someone at the other end of the world, without access to Visual Studio. I suppose the first thing to do would be to make sure that all strings are loaded from resource files, but what about the language editor and language switching? I heard about winres.exe, but my application makes use of many custom usercontrols and winres.exe often chokes on the forms I try to feed it. Also, I am not sure about relying on reflection to change all my captions, etc. To be able to switch language without restarting the application, I believe I would still need to write some custom code to be executed on all open forms (to update dynamic information) even if I use winres.exe(?) Questions: 1) Do you use winres.exe and try to make your application play nice with this utility? 2) What about dynamic elements not editable by winres.exe? Do you implement a standard method in all your forms and cycle through all open forms, calling this method whenever a culture change is requested? Or is there something built into the framework I can use? I would prefer *not* having my forms torn down and rebuilt (even behind the scenes) for the translation to take place. 3) Are there any good alternatives (commercial or free) to winres.exe or do I have to roll my own? 4) Any links to information/best practices on this subject? /Joergen Bech I would also love to hear about this. It seems to be one of those areas
where you have to choose between craptastic free tools and repetitive strain injury or craptasticly expensive professional tools that never do exactly what you want them to (i.e. WinTrans 8.0). Having said that, your biggest bill is going to be from the translator ;). Robin Hi,
Robinson wrote: > I would also love to hear about this. It seems to be one of those areas I don't think so. The setup is actually pretty simple. Basically:> where you have to choose between craptastic free tools and repetitive strain > injury or craptasticly expensive professional tools that never do exactly > what you want them to (i.e. WinTrans 8.0). - tblLanguages Contains one entry per Language (title, native name, SortOrder, Culture, Active, MayBeDeleted) - tbl_Language_Info Contains information about the background of items (one rec for every text-key) - tbl_Language_Text Contains one record per language per text to be displayed, plus a FK to link to the language. Arguments will be included so that they may be replaced via string.format() From .Net, I have a class that consumes the database and returns texts that are identified by the language's ID and the appropriate text-key. I haven't tried this with either right-2-left languages or i.e. chinese, but other than that this works pretty well. > Having said that, your biggest bill is going to be from the translator Probably ... :-)> ;). Cheers, Olaf Hi,
Joergen Bech wrote: > I suppose the first thing to do would be to make sure that all checkout this thread in microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet:> strings are loaded from resource files, but what about the language > editor and language switching? news:#OKxYfd9GHA.3384@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl Basically, what I do is using a database that holds all textual contents.If you'd like to stick with the resources-approach, here's two links that I've come across, the first being geared at SQLS and the second at Access: http://www.codeproject.com/aspnet/customsqlserverprovider.asp http://www.leftslipper.com/ShowFaq.aspx?FaqId=9 Haven't tried this out yet though. Concerning the translations, I tend to distribute Access-DBs with WinForms, along with an application that can be used to translate items. That application will then be sent to translators and they then send back the MDB which may then replace the local database(s). In ASP.Net I have pages that map the same functionality and may used by translators directly over the web (provided we're talking internet as opposed to intranet). > 2) What about dynamic elements not editable by winres.exe? Do you Not sure what you're talking about here. If this is about i.e.> implement a standard method in all your forms and cycle through > all open forms, calling this method whenever a culture change is > requested? Or is there something built into the framework I can > use? I would prefer *not* having my forms torn down and rebuilt > (even behind the scenes) for the translation to take place. product-names which are actually defined by the users themselves: In my current project, this is handled by extending the identifier (or key) with a suffix - the record's ID. That is, when a product is being added to the database, a new record for every language will be added to the text-table along with the internal title (which needs to be set before adding). It's up to the user to then supply the texts required to display the item in the languages that exist. Cheers & tschüssele, Olaf On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:06:39 +0100, Olaf Rabbachin
<Olaf_NoSpam@IntuiDev.com> wrote: Show quoteHide quote >Hi, Yes, this is what I used to do back in the old VB6 days. I could> >Joergen Bech wrote: > >> I suppose the first thing to do would be to make sure that all >> strings are loaded from resource files, but what about the language >> editor and language switching? > >checkout this thread in microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet: > news:#OKxYfd9GHA.3384@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl > >Basically, what I do is using a database that holds all textual contents. > >If you'd like to stick with the resources-approach, here's two links that >I've come across, the first being geared at SQLS and the second at Access: > http://www.codeproject.com/aspnet/customsqlserverprovider.asp > http://www.leftslipper.com/ShowFaq.aspx?FaqId=9 >Haven't tried this out yet though. > >Concerning the translations, I tend to distribute Access-DBs with WinForms, >along with an application that can be used to translate items. That >application will then be sent to translators and they then send back the >MDB which may then replace the local database(s). >In ASP.Net I have pages that map the same functionality and may used by >translators directly over the web (provided we're talking internet as >opposed to intranet). convert my old tools and ways of doing it to .Net, but before I go that route, I wanted to know if there was a standard approach specific to .Net (or a de facto tool). Show quoteHide quote >> 2) What about dynamic elements not editable by winres.exe? Do you By "dynamic" elements I mean text strings that are composed by the>> implement a standard method in all your forms and cycle through >> all open forms, calling this method whenever a culture change is >> requested? Or is there something built into the framework I can >> use? I would prefer *not* having my forms torn down and rebuilt >> (even behind the scenes) for the translation to take place. > >Not sure what you're talking about here. If this is about i.e. >product-names which are actually defined by the users themselves: In my >current project, this is handled by extending the identifier (or key) with >a suffix - the record's ID. That is, when a product is being added to the >database, a new record for every language will be added to the text-table >along with the internal title (which needs to be set before adding). It's >up to the user to then supply the texts required to display the item in the >languages that exist. program during runtime, i.e. a progress dialog might display "Now processing record 1 of 457". This string would be stored as "Now processing record %1 of %2" in the language database and the %1 and %2 placeholders would be replaced at runtime after the string had been translated. Could be any number of other things that cannot be translated at designtime. /Joergen Bech
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"Joergen Bech @ post1.tele.dk>" <jbech<NOSPAMNOSPAM> wrote in message But you *can* process those strings at designtime.news:ht6rm29i0nblh2dkd5n904aeq7tlrr2cag@4ax.com... > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:06:39 +0100, Olaf Rabbachin > <Olaf_NoSpam@IntuiDev.com> wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>Joergen Bech wrote: >> >>> I suppose the first thing to do would be to make sure that all >>> strings are loaded from resource files, but what about the language >>> editor and language switching? >> >>checkout this thread in microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet: >> news:#OKxYfd9GHA.3384@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl >> >>Basically, what I do is using a database that holds all textual contents. >> >>If you'd like to stick with the resources-approach, here's two links that >>I've come across, the first being geared at SQLS and the second at Access: >> http://www.codeproject.com/aspnet/customsqlserverprovider.asp >> http://www.leftslipper.com/ShowFaq.aspx?FaqId=9 >>Haven't tried this out yet though. >> >>Concerning the translations, I tend to distribute Access-DBs with >>WinForms, >>along with an application that can be used to translate items. That >>application will then be sent to translators and they then send back the >>MDB which may then replace the local database(s). >>In ASP.Net I have pages that map the same functionality and may used by >>translators directly over the web (provided we're talking internet as >>opposed to intranet). > > Yes, this is what I used to do back in the old VB6 days. I could > convert my old tools and ways of doing it to .Net, but before I go > that route, I wanted to know if there was a standard approach > specific to .Net (or a de facto tool). > >>> 2) What about dynamic elements not editable by winres.exe? Do you >>> implement a standard method in all your forms and cycle through >>> all open forms, calling this method whenever a culture change is >>> requested? Or is there something built into the framework I can >>> use? I would prefer *not* having my forms torn down and rebuilt >>> (even behind the scenes) for the translation to take place. >> >>Not sure what you're talking about here. If this is about i.e. >>product-names which are actually defined by the users themselves: In my >>current project, this is handled by extending the identifier (or key) with >>a suffix - the record's ID. That is, when a product is being added to the >>database, a new record for every language will be added to the text-table >>along with the internal title (which needs to be set before adding). It's >>up to the user to then supply the texts required to display the item in >>the >>languages that exist. > > By "dynamic" elements I mean text strings that are composed by the > program during runtime, i.e. a progress dialog might display > "Now processing record 1 of 457". This string would be stored as > "Now processing record %1 of %2" in the language database and > the %1 and %2 placeholders would be replaced at runtime after the > string had been translated. > > Could be any number of other things that cannot be translated at > designtime. > > /Joergen Bech > Store them as something like "Now Processing Record {0} of {2}." Then use String.Format to output them in your program: message = String.Format(stringFromDb, 1, 457) Robin S.
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On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:28:36 -0800, "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> Yes, I know, and that is what I was describing. The thing is:wrote: >> By "dynamic" elements I mean text strings that are composed by the >> program during runtime, i.e. a progress dialog might display >> "Now processing record 1 of 457". This string would be stored as >> "Now processing record %1 of %2" in the language database and >> the %1 and %2 placeholders would be replaced at runtime after the >> string had been translated. >> >> Could be any number of other things that cannot be translated at >> designtime. >> >> /Joergen Bech >> > >But you *can* process those strings at designtime. >Store them as something like > > "Now Processing Record {0} of {2}." > >Then use String.Format to output them in your program: > >message = String.Format(stringFromDb, 1, 457) > >Robin S. > Are such strings visible/editable in winres.exe and is there something in the framework that (via reflection?) causes certain functions to be called automatically when a new culture is applied to a form? Remember: I would like to be able to translate forms and controls (including "dynamic" elements) without restarting the application and without even tearing down and rebuilding the forms. So some mechanism needs to be in place to fetch those strings, process them, and display them to the user. Question is, do I write the whole thing myself or do I get parts of it for "free"? /Joergen Bech
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"Joergen Bech @ post1.tele.dk>" <jbech<NOSPAMNOSPAM> wrote in message I haven't done this, but am generally suspicious of anything free.news:hidrm2prgh4ps9utjlstsheo3dpq309rhc@4ax.com... > On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:28:36 -0800, "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> > wrote: > >>> By "dynamic" elements I mean text strings that are composed by the >>> program during runtime, i.e. a progress dialog might display >>> "Now processing record 1 of 457". This string would be stored as >>> "Now processing record %1 of %2" in the language database and >>> the %1 and %2 placeholders would be replaced at runtime after the >>> string had been translated. >>> >>> Could be any number of other things that cannot be translated at >>> designtime. >>> >>> /Joergen Bech >>> >> >>But you *can* process those strings at designtime. >>Store them as something like >> >> "Now Processing Record {0} of {2}." >> >>Then use String.Format to output them in your program: >> >>message = String.Format(stringFromDb, 1, 457) >> >>Robin S. >> > > Yes, I know, and that is what I was describing. The thing is: > Are such strings visible/editable in winres.exe and is there something > in the framework that (via reflection?) causes certain functions to > be called automatically when a new culture is applied to a form? > > Remember: I would like to be able to translate forms and controls > (including "dynamic" elements) without restarting the application > and without even tearing down and rebuilding the forms. So some > mechanism needs to be in place to fetch those strings, process them, > and display them to the user. Question is, do I write the whole thing > myself or do I get parts of it for "free"? > > /Joergen Bech > Personally, I like to have control. So I would follow the other suggestions and put the strings in a database table and get them from there depending on the location in which I am running. Robin S. Hi,
Joergen Bech wrote: Show quoteHide quote >>Not sure what you're talking about here. If this is about i.e. since I never went the resources- resp. "built-in" path I actually don't>>product-names which are actually defined by the users themselves: In my >>current project, this is handled by extending the identifier (or key) with >>a suffix - the record's ID. That is, when a product is being added to the >>database, a new record for every language will be added to the text-table >>along with the internal title (which needs to be set before adding). It's >>up to the user to then supply the texts required to display the item in the >>languages that exist. > > By "dynamic" elements I mean text strings that are composed by the > program during runtime, i.e. a progress dialog might display > "Now processing record 1 of 457". This string would be stored as > "Now processing record %1 of %2" in the language database and > the %1 and %2 placeholders would be replaced at runtime after the > string had been translated. > > Could be any number of other things that cannot be translated at > designtime. know. :-) Cheers, Olaf Well i wrote software for a company that sold the software i wrote in 9
country`s and in 14 different languages I solved this problem by storing all my text data in a unicode database , we filled the database in 1 base language ( wich was German in our case as we were not active in country`s who used the English language ) for every country we added a column , and send the DB ( Access 2000 ) to these country`s wholesalers they translated the fields in there native tongue when we got the database back we just removed the unnecesary fields and compiled the project with the release language Worked perfect for us and it was verry cheap :-) ,,,,, regards Michel Posseth [MCP] Show quoteHide quote "Joergen Bech @ post1.tele.dk>" wrote: > > Suppose I have written a .Net application and - until now - > have hardcoded all my text strings. Now, the application needs > to be translated into another language. Furthermore, the translation > must be done by someone at the other end of the world, without > access to Visual Studio. > > I suppose the first thing to do would be to make sure that all > strings are loaded from resource files, but what about the language > editor and language switching? > > I heard about winres.exe, but my application makes use of many > custom usercontrols and winres.exe often chokes on the forms I > try to feed it. Also, I am not sure about relying on reflection to > change all my captions, etc. To be able to switch language without > restarting the application, I believe I would still need to write some > custom code to be executed on all open forms (to update dynamic > information) even if I use winres.exe(?) > > Questions: > > 1) Do you use winres.exe and try to make your application play nice > with this utility? > > 2) What about dynamic elements not editable by winres.exe? Do you > implement a standard method in all your forms and cycle through > all open forms, calling this method whenever a culture change is > requested? Or is there something built into the framework I can > use? I would prefer *not* having my forms torn down and rebuilt > (even behind the scenes) for the translation to take place. > > 3) Are there any good alternatives (commercial or free) to winres.exe > or do I have to roll my own? > > 4) Any links to information/best practices on this subject? > > /Joergen Bech > > > > 
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