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Re: Is VB.NET Stable?? To Aaron Kemp - Ahole ExtrordinarePerhaps you mean me. Sorry, it's not me. I'm not afraid to sign my posts
with my real name. And if you have ever read any of my posts, you will see that I always check my temper and my language at the door, unlike some.... ----- Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005 Show quoteHide quote > Hey Aaron, > > I think this must be that butt-plug that I mentioned that writes those > books, Tim something or other. > > The Grand Master > > ToHellWithAaronKemp wrote... You think you are smart, until one day MS dumps on you boyo ! Within
the next five minutes they will throw away everything that you have spent years learning about. So you will have to waste another couple of years learning thier latest trash. YESTERDAY: DNA is the future (barf) TODAY: COM is no good (even though we invented it) instead use .net TOMORROW: We made a mistake - dont use .net use d@ instead Wake up you stupid c**t, these people suck us in then blow us out. There is no money in writting books about .NET, we know that is obvious, why else would you lurke around here trying to push them on newbies. Channel your efforts into something more useful. Steve Ray Irvin The Grand Master Tim Patrick wrote: Show quoteHide quote > Perhaps you mean me. Sorry, it's not me. I'm not afraid to sign my posts > with my real name. And if you have ever read any of my posts, you will see > that I always check my temper and my language at the door, unlike some.... > > ----- > Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com > Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005 > > > Hey Aaron, > > > > I think this must be that butt-plug that I mentioned that writes those > > books, Tim something or other. > > > > The Grand Master > > > > ToHellWithAaronKemp wrote... "Master Programmer" <master_program***@outgun.com> ha scritto nel messaggio Like teaching writing c++ apps under linux in 10 lessons?> Channel your efforts into something more useful. Maybe about this there is some pocket books such as "programming linux for idiots" :) Master Programmer ha scritto:
> Wake up you stupid c**t, these people suck us in then blow us out. Grand Master of what ?> There is no money in writting books about .NET, we know that is > obvious, why else would you lurke around here trying to push them on > newbies. Channel your efforts into something more useful. > > Steve Ray Irvin > The Grand Master Perhaps you mean: http://www.3d-dali.com/Tour/Masturbateur.htm But you see, MS will change the technology, and most of us will learn
the new technology, and then we'll go work for companies that want to use the newest and hottest technology whether it's a good idea or not. I don't mind, because learning new things keeps your mind sharp, and when *you're* drooling in a rest home with Alzheimer's waiting for someone to wipe your bum, I'll still be reading tech books and making money. Robin S. ------------------------------- Show quoteHide quote "Master Programmer" <master_program***@outgun.com> wrote in message news:1164902116.206648.101780@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com... > You think you are smart, until one day MS dumps on you boyo ! Within > the next five minutes they will throw away everything that you have > spent years learning about. So you will have to waste another couple of > years learning thier latest trash. > > YESTERDAY: DNA is the future (barf) > TODAY: COM is no good (even though we invented it) instead > use .net > TOMORROW: We made a mistake - dont use .net use d@ instead > > Wake up you stupid c**t, these people suck us in then blow us out. > There is no money in writting books about .NET, we know that is > obvious, why else would you lurke around here trying to push them on > newbies. Channel your efforts into something more useful. > > Steve Ray Irvin > The Grand Master > > > > > > > > Tim Patrick wrote: >> Perhaps you mean me. Sorry, it's not me. I'm not afraid to sign my posts >> with my real name. And if you have ever read any of my posts, you will >> see >> that I always check my temper and my language at the door, unlike >> some.... >> >> ----- >> Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com >> Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005 >> >> > Hey Aaron, >> > >> > I think this must be that butt-plug that I mentioned that writes those >> > books, Tim something or other. >> > >> > The Grand Master >> > >> > ToHellWithAaronKemp wrote... > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schrieb: Unfortunately this is only one side of the medal. By disposing technologies > But you see, MS will change the technology, and most of us will learn > the new technology, and then we'll go work for companies that want > to use the newest and hottest technology whether it's a good idea > or not. customers' investments in solutions developed using these technologies are disposed too, which significantly increases the total cost. -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> Herfried,
The technologies is not the most important. Let me take this time not a analogy with cars. One of the first inventions from human was fire and how to make meat consumable for humans, it seems that it was the start of their spread over the world. We still eat meat and still use in a way fire for that. However we do it much more hygienic, a reason why we life much longer now. Cor Show quoteHide quote "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> schreef in bericht news:%23vmhlQNFHHA.2112@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schrieb: >> But you see, MS will change the technology, and most of us will learn >> the new technology, and then we'll go work for companies that want >> to use the newest and hottest technology whether it's a good idea >> or not. > > Unfortunately this is only one side of the medal. By disposing > technologies customers' investments in solutions developed using these > technologies are disposed too, which significantly increases the total > cost. > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> schrieb: I don't think this analogy is an analogy at all. Programming languages and > The technologies is not the most important. > > Let me take this time not a analogy with cars. > > One of the first inventions from human was fire and how to make meat > consumable for humans, it seems that it was the start of their spread over > the world. > > We still eat meat and still use in a way fire for that. However we do it > much more hygienic, a reason why we life much longer now. technologies are tools for building solutions, which can/should be used even in 100 years. -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> Herfried,
If I take one about cars, you tell it is not good, if I take this one it is not good. Let say it in another way. For me you seems a very old guy, much older than me. Happy with what he did and likes to show his knowledge with that, afraid that he has to learn new things. I like the challenge of the progress. I hope that I will never loss that. That a user can stay with an old product does not mean that the developer has to be everytime ready for new things. If he does not like that, he can always become a bookkeeper. (Nothing wrong with bookkeepers, but they have mostly the complete different ideas than developers). Cor Show quoteHide quote "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> schreef in bericht news:%23lU4X0TFHHA.4768@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> schrieb: >> The technologies is not the most important. >> >> Let me take this time not a analogy with cars. >> >> One of the first inventions from human was fire and how to make meat >> consumable for humans, it seems that it was the start of their spread >> over the world. >> >> We still eat meat and still use in a way fire for that. However we do it >> much more hygienic, a reason why we life much longer now. > > I don't think this analogy is an analogy at all. Programming languages > and technologies are tools for building solutions, which can/should be > used even in 100 years. > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> Herfried is right a language should ALWAYS be backwards compatible and
NEVER break previous versions of code. You just get overexcited about learning "new technologies - wow" that only do the "same as the old thing as before" but "in a different way". You are truly pathetic actually, because you just like learning for the sake of it - even if there is no practical use in doing so. Thats actually very stupid of you - you are very stupid. Steve Ray Irwin Cor Ligthert [MVP] wrote: Show quoteHide quote > Herfried, > > If I take one about cars, you tell it is not good, if I take this one it is > not good. > > Let say it in another way. For me you seems a very old guy, much older than > me. Happy with what he did and likes to show his knowledge with that, afraid > that he has to learn new things. > > I like the challenge of the progress. I hope that I will never loss that. > That a user can stay with an old product does not mean that the developer > has to be everytime ready for new things. > > If he does not like that, he can always become a bookkeeper. (Nothing wrong > with bookkeepers, but they have mostly the complete different ideas than > developers). > > Cor > > > "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> schreef in bericht > news:%23lU4X0TFHHA.4768@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> schrieb: > >> The technologies is not the most important. > >> > >> Let me take this time not a analogy with cars. > >> > >> One of the first inventions from human was fire and how to make meat > >> consumable for humans, it seems that it was the start of their spread > >> over the world. > >> > >> We still eat meat and still use in a way fire for that. However we do it > >> much more hygienic, a reason why we life much longer now. > > > > I don't think this analogy is an analogy at all. Programming languages > > and technologies are tools for building solutions, which can/should be > > used even in 100 years. > > > > -- > > M S Herfried K. Wagner > > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> Steve,
"Master Programmer" <master_program***@outgun.com> schrieb: Well, I agree on this point. Programming languages do not necessarily have > Herfried is right a language should ALWAYS be backwards compatible and > NEVER break previous versions of code. to be backwards compatible if the conversion of the source code doesn't have a high price and the changes are justified by an overall increase in productivity and reduction of total cost. > You just get overexcited about learning "new technologies - wow" It would be great if you rethink your choice of words to conform with the > that only do the "same as the old thing as before" but "in a different > way". > [...] "Rules of Conduct" in future. Nobody wants to see flamewars and insults here, but constructive input is always welcome! -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> is there a 'rules of conduct' for groups.google.com?
I see this domain as the property of google; not of Microsoft -Charlie Herfried K. Wagner [MVP] wrote: Show quoteHide quote > Steve, > > "Master Programmer" <master_program***@outgun.com> schrieb: > > Herfried is right a language should ALWAYS be backwards compatible and > > NEVER break previous versions of code. > > Well, I agree on this point. Programming languages do not necessarily have > to be backwards compatible if the conversion of the source code doesn't have > a high price and the changes are justified by an overall increase in > productivity and reduction of total cost. > > > You just get overexcited about learning "new technologies - wow" > > that only do the "same as the old thing as before" but "in a different > > way". > > [...] > > It would be great if you rethink your choice of words to conform with the > "Rules of Conduct" in future. Nobody wants to see flamewars and insults > here, but constructive input is always welcome! > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> This domain is neither the property of Google
nor the property of Microsoft. It is a public usenet newsgroup that you can get to from any newsreader. Robin S. ------------------------- Show quoteHide quote "Jello World" <jello_wo***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1165028371.970664.120280@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com... > is there a 'rules of conduct' for groups.google.com? > I see this domain as the property of google; not of Microsoft > > -Charlie > > > > > Herfried K. Wagner [MVP] wrote: >> Steve, >> >> "Master Programmer" <master_program***@outgun.com> schrieb: >> > Herfried is right a language should ALWAYS be backwards compatible and >> > NEVER break previous versions of code. >> >> Well, I agree on this point. Programming languages do not necessarily >> have >> to be backwards compatible if the conversion of the source code doesn't >> have >> a high price and the changes are justified by an overall increase in >> productivity and reduction of total cost. >> >> > You just get overexcited about learning "new technologies - wow" >> > that only do the "same as the old thing as before" but "in a different >> > way". >> > [...] >> >> It would be great if you rethink your choice of words to conform with the >> "Rules of Conduct" in future. Nobody wants to see flamewars and insults >> here, but constructive input is always welcome! >> >> -- >> M S Herfried K. Wagner >> M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> >> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schrieb: I have to disagree. Microsoft has control over the newsgroups in the > This domain is neither the property of Google > nor the property of Microsoft. It is a public > usenet newsgroup that you can get to from any > newsreader. "microsoft.public.*" groups hierarchy. Some of these groups are even used to provide commercial support for MSDN subscribers. Microsoft's "Rules of Conduct" apply. -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> Herfried,
Before there come misunderstandings I write this for those who don't know this. A Microsoft MVP is never representing Microsoft or it should be for special occassions as it can be for everybody else. Therefore Herfried is writing his own opinion. Microsoft can (and does) never claim the control over newsgroups in the public domain of UseNet. They have the right to use that as everybody else in the way they like including contributing and use it to help people. They are also not able to remove things that are not on their server anymore. Most of us log on to the Microsoft newsservers. Microsoft can remove things and have that right from those (although they do that very carefully and decent only for obvious spam) from their newsservers. This does not mean that it will be removed by other newsservers. Cor Show quoteHide quote "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> schreef in bericht news:ejU03ghFHHA.3508@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schrieb: >> This domain is neither the property of Google >> nor the property of Microsoft. It is a public >> usenet newsgroup that you can get to from any >> newsreader. > > I have to disagree. Microsoft has control over the newsgroups in the > "microsoft.public.*" groups hierarchy. Some of these groups are even used > to provide commercial support for MSDN subscribers. Microsoft's "Rules of > Conduct" apply. > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> schrieb: Microsoft creates and deletes groups from this hierarchy. The RFD/CFV > Microsoft can (and does) never claim the control over newsgroups in the > public domain of UseNet. process which is typical for the Usenet to manage creation/deletion of groups is not performed. Although Microsoft's news servers provide a news feed nowadays, the groups still sort of "belong" to Microsoft. > They are also not able to remove things that are not on their server That's indeed true. But using Microsoft's public newsgroups in a way they > anymore. Most of us log on to the Microsoft newsservers. Microsoft can > remove things and have that right from those (although they do that very > carefully and decent only for obvious spam) from their newsservers. This > does not mean that it will be removed by other newsservers. are not intended to be used (violating Microsoft's "Rules of Conduct" document) may cause Microsoft to cancel support for the groups via the "news.microsoft.com" news server. -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> Herfried,
Try to learn to accept the meaning from others, only want to hear what you want to hear has seldom been the right way to go. You show yourself as a conservative in a way as you see seldom with developers. VB6 is not the endstation as the punchcard was not the endstation, about which long time people were talking as you are doing now about VB6 (not me). The punchcard processes exist still but now on magnetic tape by many large organisations by the way. Cor Show quoteHide quote "Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> schreef in bericht news:%23i5yPhbFHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Steve, > > "Master Programmer" <master_program***@outgun.com> schrieb: >> Herfried is right a language should ALWAYS be backwards compatible and >> NEVER break previous versions of code. > > Well, I agree on this point. Programming languages do not necessarily > have to be backwards compatible if the conversion of the source code > doesn't have a high price and the changes are justified by an overall > increase in productivity and reduction of total cost. > >> You just get overexcited about learning "new technologies - wow" >> that only do the "same as the old thing as before" but "in a different >> way". >> [...] > > It would be great if you rethink your choice of words to conform with the > "Rules of Conduct" in future. Nobody wants to see flamewars and insults > here, but constructive input is always welcome! > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> schrieb: Being conservative is not the opposite of being progressive. I believe that > Try to learn to accept the meaning from others, only want to hear what you > want to hear has seldom been the right way to go. > > You show yourself as a conservative in a way as you see seldom with > developers. being conservative is important to be able to be progressive. The whole world has been made in the past, and it serves as the foundation for further development. We are still using streets built by the Romans whereever it still makes sense and we do not use them any more where still using them would have disadvatages over a new street. > VB6 is not the endstation Nobody is claiming that. Moreover: VB6 must not be the endstation of the Classic VB branch of programming languages ;-). -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/>
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"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> wrote in message Technologies hang around until they are replaced. I know of anews:%23lU4X0TFHHA.4768@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> schrieb: >> The technologies is not the most important. >> >> Let me take this time not a analogy with cars. >> >> One of the first inventions from human was fire and how to make meat >> consumable for humans, it seems that it was the start of their spread >> over the world. >> >> We still eat meat and still use in a way fire for that. However we do it >> much more hygienic, a reason why we life much longer now. > > I don't think this analogy is an analogy at all. Programming languages > and technologies are tools for building solutions, which can/should be > used even in 100 years. > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> company that is still running programs I wrote in COBOL and Fortran on the Vax in the late 1980's. And that's fine. It doesn't mean I want to still be programming in COBOL and Fortran on a Vax. But I also don't need to take away anybody else's desire or need to do it. Robin S.
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"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> wrote in message I agree, but I don't have control over that. If I want to remainnews:%23vmhlQNFHHA.2112@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schrieb: >> But you see, MS will change the technology, and most of us will learn >> the new technology, and then we'll go work for companies that want >> to use the newest and hottest technology whether it's a good idea >> or not. > > Unfortunately this is only one side of the medal. By disposing > technologies customers' investments in solutions developed using these > technologies are disposed too, which significantly increases the total > cost. > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> employed, I have to continue to keep my skills up-to-date. Robin S. "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schrieb: That's pretty clear to me. I only wanted to show that different >>> But you see, MS will change the technology, and most of us will learn >>> the new technology, and then we'll go work for companies that want >>> to use the newest and hottest technology whether it's a good idea >>> or not. >> >> Unfortunately this is only one side of the medal. By disposing >> technologies customers' investments in solutions developed using these >> technologies are disposed too, which significantly increases the total >> cost. > > I agree, but I don't have control over that. If I want to remain > employed, I have to continue to keep my skills up-to-date. perspectives lead to different opinions about technology disposal. -- M S Herfried K. Wagner M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/>
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"Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]" <hirf-spam-me-here@gmx.at> wrote in message I agree that a *lot* of money is spent continually upgrading, andnews:uKIbB1TFHHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schrieb: >>>> But you see, MS will change the technology, and most of us will learn >>>> the new technology, and then we'll go work for companies that want >>>> to use the newest and hottest technology whether it's a good idea >>>> or not. >>> >>> Unfortunately this is only one side of the medal. By disposing >>> technologies customers' investments in solutions developed using these >>> technologies are disposed too, which significantly increases the total >>> cost. >> >> I agree, but I don't have control over that. If I want to remain >> employed, I have to continue to keep my skills up-to-date. > > That's pretty clear to me. I only wanted to show that different > perspectives lead to different opinions about technology disposal. > > -- > M S Herfried K. Wagner > M V P <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/> > V B <URL:http://dotnet.mvps.org/dotnet/faqs/> some of it doesn't necessarily need to be. I think in the case of VB6 apps being upgraded to VB.Net, there are probably many of them that will not be upgraded for a long time, if ever. It's the old, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." idea. If they break, or the technology is no longer supported and they need to make changes to it, that might be the right time to upgrade. I wrote a bunch of VB6 apps running against Oracle, SQLServer, and Access as the back-end databases at a large company. I left that job 3 years ago, and they're still running them and supporting them. Oh, and it's Access97 even. Robin S. I will continue to use VS.NET only because I am FORCED to. As for
ADO.NET forget it ! I continue to use ADO within VS.NET because its 100 times better. Whats more I will continue to do so, I prefer it and don't give a damn if its a COM object, at least it has MoveNext. I will NEVER NEVER EVER use databinding - if I wanted a case tool I would go for Ruby on Rails ps: I don't read tech books, I don't need to. Maybe at the launch of the next VS they should play music to hype things up, like presidents do at election time. I have some nice request for them..... "Won't get fooled again" - by The Who The Grand Master RobinS wrote: Show quoteHide quote > But you see, MS will change the technology, and most of us will learn > the new technology, and then we'll go work for companies that want > to use the newest and hottest technology whether it's a good idea > or not. > > I don't mind, because learning new things keeps your mind > sharp, and when *you're* drooling in a rest home with Alzheimer's > waiting for someone to wipe your bum, I'll still be reading tech > books and making money. > > Robin S. > ------------------------------- > "Master Programmer" <master_program***@outgun.com> wrote in message > news:1164902116.206648.101780@80g2000cwy.googlegroups.com... > > You think you are smart, until one day MS dumps on you boyo ! Within > > the next five minutes they will throw away everything that you have > > spent years learning about. So you will have to waste another couple of > > years learning thier latest trash. > > > > YESTERDAY: DNA is the future (barf) > > TODAY: COM is no good (even though we invented it) instead > > use .net > > TOMORROW: We made a mistake - dont use .net use d@ instead > > > > Wake up you stupid c**t, these people suck us in then blow us out. > > There is no money in writting books about .NET, we know that is > > obvious, why else would you lurke around here trying to push them on > > newbies. Channel your efforts into something more useful. > > > > Steve Ray Irvin > > The Grand Master > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Patrick wrote: > >> Perhaps you mean me. Sorry, it's not me. I'm not afraid to sign my posts > >> with my real name. And if you have ever read any of my posts, you will > >> see > >> that I always check my temper and my language at the door, unlike > >> some.... > >> > >> ----- > >> Tim Patrick - www.timaki.com > >> Start-to-Finish Visual Basic 2005 > >> > >> > Hey Aaron, > >> > > >> > I think this must be that butt-plug that I mentioned that writes those > >> > books, Tim something or other. > >> > > >> > The Grand Master > >> > > >> > ToHellWithAaronKemp wrote... > > > I will continue to use VS.NET only because I am FORCED to. You could always get a job at McDonalds.>As for MoveNext? How many times, if you use a DataReader you can..... Read () and > ADO.NET forget it ! I continue to use ADO within VS.NET because its > 100 times better. Whats more I will continue to do so, I prefer it and > don't give a damn if its a COM object, at least it has MoveNext. I will > NEVER NEVER EVER use databinding - if I wanted a case tool I would go > for Ruby on Rails NextResult (). > ps: I don't read tech books, I don't need to. AHAAAA! Here is your problem. I always tell my nieces and nephews that if they want to be clever when they grow up, they have to read books. Lots of books. Sorry but you give the impression of needing to read lots of books on .NET (haha) ;). Would you like some recommendations? Robin 
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