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Commercial copy protection?Not sure if I can ask the question in this forum - please let me know if it
is better elsewhere. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced good copy protection program that will protect software on either a machine only or network range basis?? I have just found Shareguard that looks reasonably priced. My applications are for vertical market and are not likely to be cracked, BUT users are likely to pass working versions around if not licensed. I have tried the option of releasing full products with requests for contributions, but out of a fairly large user base, only a couple of kind souls have made any contribution. Willing to pay a reasonable amount for the right product. Best wishes Paul Bromley You might look at Software Passport (formerly known as Armadillo) at
http://siliconrealms.com/armadillo.shtml. Bob Flenniken Show quoteHide quote "Paul Bromley" wrote: > Not sure if I can ask the question in this forum - please let me know if it > is better elsewhere. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced good copy > protection program that will protect software on either a machine only or > network range basis?? I have just found Shareguard that looks reasonably > priced. My applications are for vertical market and are not likely to be > cracked, BUT users are likely to pass working versions around if not > licensed. I have tried the option of releasing full products with requests > for contributions, but out of a fairly large user base, only a couple of > kind souls have made any contribution. Willing to pay a reasonable amount > for the right product. > > Best wishes > > > Paul Bromley > > > > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your protection
system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to write a routine to validate a serial or key. The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go at your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a key validating routine should be enough right? Paul Bromley wrote: Show quoteHide quote > Not sure if I can ask the question in this forum - please let me know if it > is better elsewhere. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced good copy > protection program that will protect software on either a machine only or > network range basis?? I have just found Shareguard that looks reasonably > priced. My applications are for vertical market and are not likely to be > cracked, BUT users are likely to pass working versions around if not > licensed. I have tried the option of releasing full products with requests > for contributions, but out of a fairly large user base, only a couple of > kind souls have made any contribution. Willing to pay a reasonable amount > for the right product. > > Best wishes > > > Paul Bromley On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote:
> If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your protection Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it sounds. I> system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to > write a routine to validate a serial or key. > > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go at > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a key > validating routine should be enough right? > would not recommend going along that route. You need some professionally done system like xheo licensing http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free Yes.
Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not impossible. He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely within his industry or org. This should be fairly trivial. A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac address?) would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party sw is needed for this type of protection. Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their bosses money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: Show quoteHide quote > On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: > > > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your protection > > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to > > write a routine to validate a serial or key. > > > > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as > > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go at > > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a key > > validating routine should be enough right? > > > > > Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it sounds. I > would not recommend going along that route. You need some professionally > done system like xheo licensing > http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx > > If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense > http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free > -- > Bits.Bytes > http://bytes.thinkersroom.com Hi Blake and all,
I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a unique identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. All PCs are connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, and most PCs will be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about drives being re-formatted. I would like to implement protection so that my program be licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a site basis, or as an individual PC. On a site basis, I can easily obtain and check the IP address of the server, as I can obtain this IP address from a piece of software that I know all sites will be running. My main problem is the other option of allowing licensing per PC - I need some unique identifier for any PC - but this must cover Win2K, XP and shortly Vista. I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will not cover the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need implementation to be very simple - by way of my generating a serial dependant on information they send to me relating to either the standalone PCs or the server. I think most will go for the server option, but I also need the standalone option. I have done all the work on the encryption and checking side etc, and as I say I am not worried about someone cracking what I am doing as it will not really hapen in the vertical market where these products will go. I had looked at the commercial options to save my time, but if I can quickly sort out a unique PC identifier, then I have sorted what I wnated to do. Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is this present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I was looking at the IP address, but on my development machine with a fixed and wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk serial number would be fine, but is this present on every PC that I am targeting. Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully received. I never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - I need to pick this unique idnetifier up without my client base having to install anything apart form my programs. Many thanks, Paul Bromley Show quoteHide quote "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... > Yes. > > Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not > impossible. > > He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled > crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely within > his industry or org. > > This should be fairly trivial. > > A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac address?) > would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party sw > is needed for this type of protection. > > Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their bosses > money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. > > > Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >> >> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your protection >> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to >> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >> > >> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as >> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go at >> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a key >> > validating routine should be enough right? >> > >> >> >> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it sounds. >> I >> would not recommend going along that route. You need some professionally >> done system like xheo licensing >> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >> >> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >> -- >> Bits.Bytes >> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com > Paul,
If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had used the expensive to handle and not so customer friendly authentication system. I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are going can lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly and very clear tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part of the hardware can mean that the program you are selling is completely not function anymore, even despite your program has nothing to do with that hardware to function. Just my thought, Cor Show quoteHide quote "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Hi Blake and all, > > I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be adequate > for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a unique > identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. All PCs are > connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, and most PCs will > be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about drives being re-formatted. > I would like to implement protection so that my program be licensed in 2 > ways - i.e. on a site basis, or as an individual PC. On a site basis, I > can easily obtain and check the IP address of the server, as I can obtain > this IP address from a piece of software that I know all sites will be > running. My main problem is the other option of allowing licensing per > PC - I need some unique identifier for any PC - but this must cover Win2K, > XP and shortly Vista. > > I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will not cover > the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need implementation to be very > simple - by way of my generating a serial dependant on information they > send to me relating to either the standalone PCs or the server. I think > most will go for the server option, but I also need the standalone option. > I have done all the work on the encryption and checking side etc, and as I > say I am not worried about someone cracking what I am doing as it will not > really hapen in the vertical market where these products will go. I had > looked at the commercial options to save my time, but if I can quickly > sort out a unique PC identifier, then I have sorted what I wnated to do. > > Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is this > present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I was looking > at the IP address, but on my development machine with a fixed and wireless > NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk serial number would be fine, > but is this present on every PC that I am targeting. > > Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully received. I > never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - I need to pick this > unique idnetifier up without my client base having to install anything > apart form my programs. > > Many thanks, > > > Paul Bromley > > > "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >> Yes. >> >> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not >> impossible. >> >> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely within >> his industry or org. >> >> This should be fairly trivial. >> >> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac address?) >> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party sw >> is needed for this type of protection. >> >> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their bosses >> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. >> >> >> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>> >>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>> > protection >>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to >>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>> > >>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as >>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go at >>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a key >>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>> > >>> >>> >>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it sounds. >>> I >>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some professionally >>> done system like xheo licensing >>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>> >>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>> -- >>> Bits.Bytes >>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >> > > Hi Cor,
I am not sure what you mean by this. I am not doing anything malevolent that would cause any damage. Can you clarify this? I assume from your first paragraph that there is no unique identifier, although the hard disk serial number is sufficient for me if it is available from XP, Win2K and Vista. Paul Show quoteHide quote "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message news:%239jvyrFHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Paul, > > If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had used the > expensive to handle and not so customer friendly authentication system. > > I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are going can > lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly and very clear > tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part of the hardware can > mean that the program you are selling is completely not function anymore, > even despite your program has nothing to do with that hardware to > function. > > Just my thought, > > Cor > > > "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht > news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Hi Blake and all, >> >> I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be >> adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a unique >> identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. All PCs are >> connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, and most PCs will >> be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about drives being >> re-formatted. I would like to implement protection so that my program be >> licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a site basis, or as an individual PC. On a >> site basis, I can easily obtain and check the IP address of the server, >> as I can obtain this IP address from a piece of software that I know all >> sites will be running. My main problem is the other option of allowing >> licensing per PC - I need some unique identifier for any PC - but this >> must cover Win2K, XP and shortly Vista. >> >> I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will not cover >> the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need implementation to be very >> simple - by way of my generating a serial dependant on information they >> send to me relating to either the standalone PCs or the server. I think >> most will go for the server option, but I also need the standalone >> option. I have done all the work on the encryption and checking side etc, >> and as I say I am not worried about someone cracking what I am doing as >> it will not really hapen in the vertical market where these products will >> go. I had looked at the commercial options to save my time, but if I can >> quickly sort out a unique PC identifier, then I have sorted what I wnated >> to do. >> >> Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is this >> present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I was looking >> at the IP address, but on my development machine with a fixed and >> wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk serial number >> would be fine, but is this present on every PC that I am targeting. >> >> Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully received. I >> never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - I need to pick this >> unique idnetifier up without my client base having to install anything >> apart form my programs. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> >> Paul Bromley >> >> >> "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >>> Yes. >>> >>> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not >>> impossible. >>> >>> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >>> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely within >>> his industry or org. >>> >>> This should be fairly trivial. >>> >>> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac address?) >>> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party sw >>> is needed for this type of protection. >>> >>> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their bosses >>> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. >>> >>> >>> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>>> >>>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>>> > protection >>>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to >>>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>>> > >>>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as >>>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go at >>>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a key >>>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it >>>> sounds. I >>>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some >>>> professionally >>>> done system like xheo licensing >>>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>>> >>>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>>> -- >>>> Bits.Bytes >>>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >>> >> >> > > I think he means that if you base the licensing on something in
the hardware, and they change the hardware, and your program no longer works, you could be liable for damages, unless you tell them about it up front. Kind of like Microsoft's program disabled Windows on lots of machines after they pushed out that program to check for validity. iTunes does this, too -- their DRM is based on something in the hardware. When my drive crashed and I had to replace it, the next time I tried to play some of my purchased music, I had to register the computer as a new computer. Cor, do I have that right? Robin S. ----------------------------------- Show quoteHide quote "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:ujpzHYHHHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Hi Cor, > > I am not sure what you mean by this. I am not doing anything > malevolent that would cause any damage. Can you clarify this? I assume > from your first paragraph that there is no unique identifier, although > the hard disk serial number is sufficient for me if it is available > from XP, Win2K and Vista. > > Paul > > > > "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message > news:%239jvyrFHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Paul, >> >> If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had >> used the expensive to handle and not so customer friendly >> authentication system. >> >> I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are going >> can lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly and very >> clear tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part of the >> hardware can mean that the program you are selling is completely not >> function anymore, even despite your program has nothing to do with >> that hardware to function. >> >> Just my thought, >> >> Cor >> >> >> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht >> news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Hi Blake and all, >>> >>> I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be >>> adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a >>> unique identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. All >>> PCs are connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, and >>> most PCs will be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about drives >>> being re-formatted. I would like to implement protection so that my >>> program be licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a site basis, or as an >>> individual PC. On a site basis, I can easily obtain and check the IP >>> address of the server, as I can obtain this IP address from a piece >>> of software that I know all sites will be running. My main problem >>> is the other option of allowing licensing per PC - I need some >>> unique identifier for any PC - but this must cover Win2K, XP and >>> shortly Vista. >>> >>> I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will not >>> cover the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need implementation >>> to be very simple - by way of my generating a serial dependant on >>> information they send to me relating to either the standalone PCs or >>> the server. I think most will go for the server option, but I also >>> need the standalone option. I have done all the work on the >>> encryption and checking side etc, and as I say I am not worried >>> about someone cracking what I am doing as it will not really hapen >>> in the vertical market where these products will go. I had looked at >>> the commercial options to save my time, but if I can quickly sort >>> out a unique PC identifier, then I have sorted what I wnated to do. >>> >>> Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is this >>> present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I was >>> looking at the IP address, but on my development machine with a >>> fixed and wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk >>> serial number would be fine, but is this present on every PC that I >>> am targeting. >>> >>> Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully >>> received. I never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - I >>> need to pick this unique idnetifier up without my client base having >>> to install anything apart form my programs. >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> >>> >>> Paul Bromley >>> >>> >>> "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not >>>> impossible. >>>> >>>> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >>>> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely >>>> within >>>> his industry or org. >>>> >>>> This should be fairly trivial. >>>> >>>> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac >>>> address?) >>>> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party >>>> sw >>>> is needed for this type of protection. >>>> >>>> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their >>>> bosses >>>> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. >>>> >>>> >>>> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>>>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>>>> > protection >>>>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial >>>>> > to >>>>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>>>> > >>>>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but >>>>> > as >>>>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a >>>>> > go at >>>>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a >>>>> > key >>>>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it >>>>> sounds. I >>>>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some >>>>> professionally >>>>> done system like xheo licensing >>>>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>>>> >>>>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>>>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>>>> -- >>>>> Bits.Bytes >>>>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Ok Robin and Cor,
I understand where you are coming from with this one now. They will be fully informed. Better still I will be more than happy to give them a new serial if this is the case - I have no intention of taking their money and then stitching them up. Just the opposite as for the last 3-4 years the users have been using my software for nothing. I am selling to sites that are likely to install on 10 - 20 machines and do not want them buying one copy when they should be buying more or a site licence. Until now I have been producing time-limited software free of charge requiring the users to use a new exe file every 6 months or so. This was to allow them to try it out and for me to sort out the problems in the beta stage. These users are now saying that they are more than happy to pay rather than keep messing about with new exe files. Paul Bromley Show quoteHide quote "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message news:6_ednTrX8NsRqOHYnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >I think he means that if you base the licensing on something in > the hardware, and they change the hardware, and your program > no longer works, you could be liable for damages, unless you > tell them about it up front. > > Kind of like Microsoft's program disabled Windows on lots of > machines after they pushed out that program to check for > validity. > > iTunes does this, too -- their DRM is based on something in > the hardware. When my drive crashed and I had to replace it, > the next time I tried to play some of my purchased music, > I had to register the computer as a new computer. > > Cor, do I have that right? > > Robin S. > ----------------------------------- > "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message > news:ujpzHYHHHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Hi Cor, >> >> I am not sure what you mean by this. I am not doing anything malevolent >> that would cause any damage. Can you clarify this? I assume from your >> first paragraph that there is no unique identifier, although the hard >> disk serial number is sufficient for me if it is available from XP, Win2K >> and Vista. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message >> news:%239jvyrFHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Paul, >>> >>> If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had used >>> the expensive to handle and not so customer friendly authentication >>> system. >>> >>> I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are going can >>> lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly and very clear >>> tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part of the hardware can >>> mean that the program you are selling is completely not function >>> anymore, even despite your program has nothing to do with that hardware >>> to function. >>> >>> Just my thought, >>> >>> Cor >>> >>> >>> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht >>> news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Hi Blake and all, >>>> >>>> I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be >>>> adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a >>>> unique identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. All PCs >>>> are connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, and most PCs >>>> will be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about drives being >>>> re-formatted. I would like to implement protection so that my program >>>> be licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a site basis, or as an individual PC. >>>> On a site basis, I can easily obtain and check the IP address of the >>>> server, as I can obtain this IP address from a piece of software that I >>>> know all sites will be running. My main problem is the other option of >>>> allowing licensing per PC - I need some unique identifier for any PC - >>>> but this must cover Win2K, XP and shortly Vista. >>>> >>>> I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will not >>>> cover the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need implementation to >>>> be very simple - by way of my generating a serial dependant on >>>> information they send to me relating to either the standalone PCs or >>>> the server. I think most will go for the server option, but I also need >>>> the standalone option. I have done all the work on the encryption and >>>> checking side etc, and as I say I am not worried about someone cracking >>>> what I am doing as it will not really hapen in the vertical market >>>> where these products will go. I had looked at the commercial options to >>>> save my time, but if I can quickly sort out a unique PC identifier, >>>> then I have sorted what I wnated to do. >>>> >>>> Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is this >>>> present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I was >>>> looking at the IP address, but on my development machine with a fixed >>>> and wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk serial >>>> number would be fine, but is this present on every PC that I am >>>> targeting. >>>> >>>> Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully received. >>>> I never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - I need to pick >>>> this unique idnetifier up without my client base having to install >>>> anything apart form my programs. >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> Paul Bromley >>>> >>>> >>>> "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >>>>> Yes. >>>>> >>>>> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not >>>>> impossible. >>>>> >>>>> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >>>>> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely >>>>> within >>>>> his industry or org. >>>>> >>>>> This should be fairly trivial. >>>>> >>>>> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac address?) >>>>> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party sw >>>>> is needed for this type of protection. >>>>> >>>>> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their bosses >>>>> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>>>>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>>>>> > protection >>>>>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to >>>>>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as >>>>>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go >>>>>> > at >>>>>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a >>>>>> > key >>>>>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it >>>>>> sounds. I >>>>>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some >>>>>> professionally >>>>>> done system like xheo licensing >>>>>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>>>>> >>>>>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>>>>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Bits.Bytes >>>>>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Forgot to say, but backtracking a little, if I could just find a foolproof
way of determing the ACTIVE IP address of the PC on the network in XP, Win2K and Vista, then this would solve my problem. Unfortunately even on my test site, I have not been able to achieve this. Best wishes Paul Bromley Show quoteHide quote "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:eI$POtHHHHA.1468@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Ok Robin and Cor, > > I understand where you are coming from with this one now. They will be > fully informed. Better still I will be more than happy to give them a new > serial if this is the case - I have no intention of taking their money and > then stitching them up. Just the opposite as for the last 3-4 years the > users have been using my software for nothing. I am selling to sites that > are likely to install on 10 - 20 machines and do not want them buying one > copy when they should be buying more or a site licence. Until now I have > been producing time-limited software free of charge requiring the users to > use a new exe file every 6 months or so. This was to allow them to try it > out and for me to sort out the problems in the beta stage. These users are > now saying that they are more than happy to pay rather than keep messing > about with new exe files. > > Paul Bromley > > > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > news:6_ednTrX8NsRqOHYnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>I think he means that if you base the licensing on something in >> the hardware, and they change the hardware, and your program >> no longer works, you could be liable for damages, unless you >> tell them about it up front. >> >> Kind of like Microsoft's program disabled Windows on lots of >> machines after they pushed out that program to check for >> validity. >> >> iTunes does this, too -- their DRM is based on something in >> the hardware. When my drive crashed and I had to replace it, >> the next time I tried to play some of my purchased music, >> I had to register the computer as a new computer. >> >> Cor, do I have that right? >> >> Robin S. >> ----------------------------------- >> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message >> news:ujpzHYHHHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Hi Cor, >>> >>> I am not sure what you mean by this. I am not doing anything malevolent >>> that would cause any damage. Can you clarify this? I assume from your >>> first paragraph that there is no unique identifier, although the hard >>> disk serial number is sufficient for me if it is available from XP, >>> Win2K and Vista. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message >>> news:%239jvyrFHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had used >>>> the expensive to handle and not so customer friendly authentication >>>> system. >>>> >>>> I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are going can >>>> lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly and very clear >>>> tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part of the hardware can >>>> mean that the program you are selling is completely not function >>>> anymore, even despite your program has nothing to do with that hardware >>>> to function. >>>> >>>> Just my thought, >>>> >>>> Cor >>>> >>>> >>>> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht >>>> news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Hi Blake and all, >>>>> >>>>> I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be >>>>> adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a >>>>> unique identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. All >>>>> PCs are connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, and >>>>> most PCs will be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about drives >>>>> being re-formatted. I would like to implement protection so that my >>>>> program be licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a site basis, or as an >>>>> individual PC. On a site basis, I can easily obtain and check the IP >>>>> address of the server, as I can obtain this IP address from a piece of >>>>> software that I know all sites will be running. My main problem is the >>>>> other option of allowing licensing per PC - I need some unique >>>>> identifier for any PC - but this must cover Win2K, XP and shortly >>>>> Vista. >>>>> >>>>> I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will not >>>>> cover the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need implementation to >>>>> be very simple - by way of my generating a serial dependant on >>>>> information they send to me relating to either the standalone PCs or >>>>> the server. I think most will go for the server option, but I also >>>>> need the standalone option. I have done all the work on the encryption >>>>> and checking side etc, and as I say I am not worried about someone >>>>> cracking what I am doing as it will not really hapen in the vertical >>>>> market where these products will go. I had looked at the commercial >>>>> options to save my time, but if I can quickly sort out a unique PC >>>>> identifier, then I have sorted what I wnated to do. >>>>> >>>>> Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is this >>>>> present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I was >>>>> looking at the IP address, but on my development machine with a fixed >>>>> and wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk serial >>>>> number would be fine, but is this present on every PC that I am >>>>> targeting. >>>>> >>>>> Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully >>>>> received. I never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - I >>>>> need to pick this unique idnetifier up without my client base having >>>>> to install anything apart form my programs. >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul Bromley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> Yes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not >>>>>> impossible. >>>>>> >>>>>> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >>>>>> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely >>>>>> within >>>>>> his industry or org. >>>>>> >>>>>> This should be fairly trivial. >>>>>> >>>>>> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac >>>>>> address?) >>>>>> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party >>>>>> sw >>>>>> is needed for this type of protection. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their bosses >>>>>> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>>>>>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>>>>>> > protection >>>>>>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial >>>>>>> > to >>>>>>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but >>>>>>> > as >>>>>>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go >>>>>>> > at >>>>>>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a >>>>>>> > key >>>>>>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it >>>>>>> sounds. I >>>>>>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some >>>>>>> professionally >>>>>>> done system like xheo licensing >>>>>>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>>>>>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Bits.Bytes >>>>>>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > I don't think you can do that, because of DHCP. You can assume
it won't change, but you know what assuming does to you. Robin S. ------------------------------------------ Show quoteHide quote "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message news:%23U8Wd3HHHHA.4904@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Forgot to say, but backtracking a little, if I could just find a > foolproof way of determing the ACTIVE IP address of the PC on the > network in XP, Win2K and Vista, then this would solve my problem. > Unfortunately even on my test site, I have not been able to achieve > this. > > Best wishes > > Paul Bromley > > > > "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message > news:eI$POtHHHHA.1468@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Ok Robin and Cor, >> >> I understand where you are coming from with this one now. They will >> be fully informed. Better still I will be more than happy to give >> them a new serial if this is the case - I have no intention of taking >> their money and then stitching them up. Just the opposite as for the >> last 3-4 years the users have been using my software for nothing. I >> am selling to sites that are likely to install on 10 - 20 machines >> and do not want them buying one copy when they should be buying more >> or a site licence. Until now I have been producing time-limited >> software free of charge requiring the users to use a new exe file >> every 6 months or so. This was to allow them to try it out and for me >> to sort out the problems in the beta stage. These users are now >> saying that they are more than happy to pay rather than keep messing >> about with new exe files. >> >> Paul Bromley >> >> >> "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message >> news:6_ednTrX8NsRqOHYnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>>I think he means that if you base the licensing on something in >>> the hardware, and they change the hardware, and your program >>> no longer works, you could be liable for damages, unless you >>> tell them about it up front. >>> >>> Kind of like Microsoft's program disabled Windows on lots of >>> machines after they pushed out that program to check for >>> validity. >>> >>> iTunes does this, too -- their DRM is based on something in >>> the hardware. When my drive crashed and I had to replace it, >>> the next time I tried to play some of my purchased music, >>> I had to register the computer as a new computer. >>> >>> Cor, do I have that right? >>> >>> Robin S. >>> ----------------------------------- >>> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message >>> news:ujpzHYHHHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> Hi Cor, >>>> >>>> I am not sure what you mean by this. I am not doing anything >>>> malevolent that would cause any damage. Can you clarify this? I >>>> assume from your first paragraph that there is no unique >>>> identifier, although the hard disk serial number is sufficient for >>>> me if it is available from XP, Win2K and Vista. >>>> >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message >>>> news:%239jvyrFHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Paul, >>>>> >>>>> If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had >>>>> used the expensive to handle and not so customer friendly >>>>> authentication system. >>>>> >>>>> I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are >>>>> going can lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly >>>>> and very clear tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part >>>>> of the hardware can mean that the program you are selling is >>>>> completely not function anymore, even despite your program has >>>>> nothing to do with that hardware to function. >>>>> >>>>> Just my thought, >>>>> >>>>> Cor >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht >>>>> news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Hi Blake and all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be >>>>>> adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find >>>>>> a unique identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. >>>>>> All PCs are connected to the internet generally with one NIC >>>>>> card, and most PCs will be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry >>>>>> about drives being re-formatted. I would like to implement >>>>>> protection so that my program be licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a >>>>>> site basis, or as an individual PC. On a site basis, I can easily >>>>>> obtain and check the IP address of the server, as I can obtain >>>>>> this IP address from a piece of software that I know all sites >>>>>> will be running. My main problem is the other option of allowing >>>>>> licensing per PC - I need some unique identifier for any PC - but >>>>>> this must cover Win2K, XP and shortly Vista. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will >>>>>> not cover the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need >>>>>> implementation to be very simple - by way of my generating a >>>>>> serial dependant on information they send to me relating to >>>>>> either the standalone PCs or the server. I think most will go for >>>>>> the server option, but I also need the standalone option. I have >>>>>> done all the work on the encryption and checking side etc, and as >>>>>> I say I am not worried about someone cracking what I am doing as >>>>>> it will not really hapen in the vertical market where these >>>>>> products will go. I had looked at the commercial options to save >>>>>> my time, but if I can quickly sort out a unique PC identifier, >>>>>> then I have sorted what I wnated to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is >>>>>> this present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I >>>>>> was looking at the IP address, but on my development machine with >>>>>> a fixed and wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard >>>>>> disk serial number would be fine, but is this present on every PC >>>>>> that I am targeting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully >>>>>> received. I never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - >>>>>> I need to pick this unique idnetifier up without my client base >>>>>> having to install anything apart form my programs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul Bromley >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> impossible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >>>>>>> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely >>>>>>> within >>>>>>> his industry or org. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This should be fairly trivial. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac >>>>>>> address?) >>>>>>> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd >>>>>>> party sw >>>>>>> is needed for this type of protection. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their >>>>>>> bosses >>>>>>> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another >>>>>>> pc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>>>>>>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>>>>>>> > protection >>>>>>>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly >>>>>>>> > trivial to >>>>>>>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, >>>>>>>> > but as >>>>>>>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have >>>>>>>> > a go at >>>>>>>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and >>>>>>>> > including a key >>>>>>>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than >>>>>>>> it sounds. I >>>>>>>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some >>>>>>>> professionally >>>>>>>> done system like xheo licensing >>>>>>>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>>>>>>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Bits.Bytes >>>>>>>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > You can always put it in the EULA that pops up when we all install
software that none of us read but are legally bound by. For all we know, we've given permission to Microsoft to come to our houses for Christmas dinner. Robin S. ----------------------------- Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message Show quoteHide quote news:eI$POtHHHHA.1468@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Ok Robin and Cor, > > I understand where you are coming from with this one now. They will be > fully informed. Better still I will be more than happy to give them a > new serial if this is the case - I have no intention of taking their > money and then stitching them up. Just the opposite as for the last > 3-4 years the users have been using my software for nothing. I am > selling to sites that are likely to install on 10 - 20 machines and do > not want them buying one copy when they should be buying more or a > site licence. Until now I have been producing time-limited software > free of charge requiring the users to use a new exe file every 6 > months or so. This was to allow them to try it out and for me to sort > out the problems in the beta stage. These users are now saying that > they are more than happy to pay rather than keep messing about with > new exe files. > > Paul Bromley > > > "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> wrote in message > news:6_ednTrX8NsRqOHYnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>I think he means that if you base the licensing on something in >> the hardware, and they change the hardware, and your program >> no longer works, you could be liable for damages, unless you >> tell them about it up front. >> >> Kind of like Microsoft's program disabled Windows on lots of >> machines after they pushed out that program to check for >> validity. >> >> iTunes does this, too -- their DRM is based on something in >> the hardware. When my drive crashed and I had to replace it, >> the next time I tried to play some of my purchased music, >> I had to register the computer as a new computer. >> >> Cor, do I have that right? >> >> Robin S. >> ----------------------------------- >> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message >> news:ujpzHYHHHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Hi Cor, >>> >>> I am not sure what you mean by this. I am not doing anything >>> malevolent that would cause any damage. Can you clarify this? I >>> assume from your first paragraph that there is no unique identifier, >>> although the hard disk serial number is sufficient for me if it is >>> available from XP, Win2K and Vista. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message >>> news:%239jvyrFHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Paul, >>>> >>>> If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had >>>> used the expensive to handle and not so customer friendly >>>> authentication system. >>>> >>>> I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are going >>>> can lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly and >>>> very clear tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part of >>>> the hardware can mean that the program you are selling is >>>> completely not function anymore, even despite your program has >>>> nothing to do with that hardware to function. >>>> >>>> Just my thought, >>>> >>>> Cor >>>> >>>> >>>> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht >>>> news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>>> Hi Blake and all, >>>>> >>>>> I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be >>>>> adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a >>>>> unique identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. >>>>> All PCs are connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, >>>>> and most PCs will be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about >>>>> drives being re-formatted. I would like to implement protection so >>>>> that my program be licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a site basis, or >>>>> as an individual PC. On a site basis, I can easily obtain and >>>>> check the IP address of the server, as I can obtain this IP >>>>> address from a piece of software that I know all sites will be >>>>> running. My main problem is the other option of allowing licensing >>>>> per PC - I need some unique identifier for any PC - but this must >>>>> cover Win2K, XP and shortly Vista. >>>>> >>>>> I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will >>>>> not cover the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need >>>>> implementation to be very simple - by way of my generating a >>>>> serial dependant on information they send to me relating to either >>>>> the standalone PCs or the server. I think most will go for the >>>>> server option, but I also need the standalone option. I have done >>>>> all the work on the encryption and checking side etc, and as I say >>>>> I am not worried about someone cracking what I am doing as it will >>>>> not really hapen in the vertical market where these products will >>>>> go. I had looked at the commercial options to save my time, but if >>>>> I can quickly sort out a unique PC identifier, then I have sorted >>>>> what I wnated to do. >>>>> >>>>> Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is >>>>> this present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I >>>>> was looking at the IP address, but on my development machine with >>>>> a fixed and wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk >>>>> serial number would be fine, but is this present on every PC that >>>>> I am targeting. >>>>> >>>>> Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully >>>>> received. I never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - >>>>> I need to pick this unique idnetifier up without my client base >>>>> having to install anything apart form my programs. >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul Bromley >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >>>>>> Yes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not >>>>>> impossible. >>>>>> >>>>>> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >>>>>> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely >>>>>> within >>>>>> his industry or org. >>>>>> >>>>>> This should be fairly trivial. >>>>>> >>>>>> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac >>>>>> address?) >>>>>> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd >>>>>> party sw >>>>>> is needed for this type of protection. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their >>>>>> bosses >>>>>> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>>>>>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>>>>>> > protection >>>>>>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly >>>>>>> > trivial to >>>>>>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, >>>>>>> > but as >>>>>>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have >>>>>>> > a go at >>>>>>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including >>>>>>> > a key >>>>>>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it >>>>>>> sounds. I >>>>>>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some >>>>>>> professionally >>>>>>> done system like xheo licensing >>>>>>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>>>>>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Bits.Bytes >>>>>>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Dear Robin,
> You can always put it in the EULA that pops up when we all install In Germany, this EULA would only be legal binding if the user knows it > software that none of us read but are legally bound by. before installing the software. So it must be on the box... Best regards, HKSHK That must be nice. Here in the U.S., you don't get to see
it until you've paid for the software, and then if you don't agree with it, you can't return it because you opened the package. How's *that* for a Catch-22? Robin S. ---------------------------------------- Show quoteHide quote "HKSHK" <hk***@gmx.net> wrote in message news:457c6754$0$5479$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de... > Dear Robin, > >> You can always put it in the EULA that pops up when we all install >> software that none of us read but are legally bound by. > > In Germany, this EULA would only be legal binding if the user knows it > before installing the software. So it must be on the box... > > Best regards, > > HKSHK Here, in Australia, contract law dictates that no conditions can be
applied after a sale, so the bits of paper inside the box or a click thru screen agreements on boxed sw should technically be non-binding. It's never been court tested to my knowledge though. RobinS wrote: Show quoteHide quote > That must be nice. Here in the U.S., you don't get to see > it until you've paid for the software, and then if you don't > agree with it, you can't return it because you opened the > package. How's *that* for a Catch-22? > > Robin S. > ---------------------------------------- > "HKSHK" <hk***@gmx.net> wrote in message > news:457c6754$0$5479$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de... > > Dear Robin, > > > >> You can always put it in the EULA that pops up when we all install > >> software that none of us read but are legally bound by. > > > > In Germany, this EULA would only be legal binding if the user knows it > > before installing the software. So it must be on the box... > > > > Best regards, > > > > HKSHK Blake,
No profesional company in the EU will go against that rule. Any paper in a box excluding rights not showed before to the buyer are in fact worthless and will be handled like that if it comes to court. (They only have meaning if the rights are extending those from the buyer to the normal behaviour). I am glad to know that Australia has the same rules. Cor Show quoteHide quote "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> schreef in bericht news:1165795708.718412.194320@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Here, in Australia, contract law dictates that no conditions can be > applied after a sale, so the bits of paper inside the box or a click > thru screen agreements on boxed sw should technically be non-binding. > > It's never been court tested to my knowledge though. > > RobinS wrote: >> That must be nice. Here in the U.S., you don't get to see >> it until you've paid for the software, and then if you don't >> agree with it, you can't return it because you opened the >> package. How's *that* for a Catch-22? >> >> Robin S. >> ---------------------------------------- >> "HKSHK" <hk***@gmx.net> wrote in message >> news:457c6754$0$5479$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de... >> > Dear Robin, >> > >> >> You can always put it in the EULA that pops up when we all install >> >> software that none of us read but are legally bound by. >> > >> > In Germany, this EULA would only be legal binding if the user knows it >> > before installing the software. So it must be on the box... >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > HKSHK > HKSHK,
I was in doubt if I would write this yesterday, however this is one of the good laws created by the EU, it is not special Germany. :-) CorShow quoteHide quote "HKSHK" <hk***@gmx.net> schreef in bericht news:457c6754$0$5479$9b622d9e@news.freenet.de... > Dear Robin, > >> You can always put it in the EULA that pops up when we all install >> software that none of us read but are legally bound by. > > In Germany, this EULA would only be legal binding if the user knows it > before installing the software. So it must be on the box... > > Best regards, > > HKSHK Right,
Show quoteHide quote "RobinS" <RobinS@NoSpam.yah.none> schreef in bericht news:6_ednTrX8NsRqOHYnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@comcast.com... >I think he means that if you base the licensing on something in > the hardware, and they change the hardware, and your program > no longer works, you could be liable for damages, unless you > tell them about it up front. > > Kind of like Microsoft's program disabled Windows on lots of > machines after they pushed out that program to check for > validity. > > iTunes does this, too -- their DRM is based on something in > the hardware. When my drive crashed and I had to replace it, > the next time I tried to play some of my purchased music, > I had to register the computer as a new computer. > > Cor, do I have that right? > > Robin S. > ----------------------------------- > "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message > news:ujpzHYHHHHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Hi Cor, >> >> I am not sure what you mean by this. I am not doing anything malevolent >> that would cause any damage. Can you clarify this? I assume from your >> first paragraph that there is no unique identifier, although the hard >> disk serial number is sufficient for me if it is available from XP, Win2K >> and Vista. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> "Cor Ligthert [MVP]" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message >> news:%239jvyrFHHHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>> Paul, >>> >>> If what you ask was in the PC, would you think that Microsoft had used >>> the expensive to handle and not so customer friendly authentication >>> system. >>> >>> I warn hundred times in this newsgroup that the route you are going can >>> lead to very high claim damages if you don't explicitly and very clear >>> tell in advance to the user that a damage on a part of the hardware can >>> mean that the program you are selling is completely not function >>> anymore, even despite your program has nothing to do with that hardware >>> to function. >>> >>> Just my thought, >>> >>> Cor >>> >>> >>> "Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> schreef in bericht >>> news:%235C2oRFHHHA.3540@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >>>> Hi Blake and all, >>>> >>>> I have gone a long way to 'rolling my own' solution that would be >>>> adequate for me. My main problem at the moment is trying to find a >>>> unique identifier for a PC running XP, Win2K and shortly vista. All PCs >>>> are connected to the internet generally with one NIC card, and most PCs >>>> will be 'stable' - i.e. I do not need to worry about drives being >>>> re-formatted. I would like to implement protection so that my program >>>> be licensed in 2 ways - i.e. on a site basis, or as an individual PC. >>>> On a site basis, I can easily obtain and check the IP address of the >>>> server, as I can obtain this IP address from a piece of software that I >>>> know all sites will be running. My main problem is the other option of >>>> allowing licensing per PC - I need some unique identifier for any PC - >>>> but this must cover Win2K, XP and shortly Vista. >>>> >>>> I have looked at the commercial offerings and I think they will not >>>> cover the licensing schemes that I need. Also I need implementation to >>>> be very simple - by way of my generating a serial dependant on >>>> information they send to me relating to either the standalone PCs or >>>> the server. I think most will go for the server option, but I also need >>>> the standalone option. I have done all the work on the encryption and >>>> checking side etc, and as I say I am not worried about someone cracking >>>> what I am doing as it will not really hapen in the vertical market >>>> where these products will go. I had looked at the commercial options to >>>> save my time, but if I can quickly sort out a unique PC identifier, >>>> then I have sorted what I wnated to do. >>>> >>>> Last night I came across the Machine GUID in the registry - is this >>>> present in XP and Win2K, and will this be resent in vista. I was >>>> looking at the IP address, but on my development machine with a fixed >>>> and wireless NIC, I have 3 IP addresses showing. Hard disk serial >>>> number would be fine, but is this present on every PC that I am >>>> targeting. >>>> >>>> Any solutions to the unique PC identifier would be gratefully received. >>>> I never thought that this would be so difficult. Note - I need to pick >>>> this unique idnetifier up without my client base having to install >>>> anything apart form my programs. >>>> >>>> Many thanks, >>>> >>>> >>>> Paul Bromley >>>> >>>> >>>> "Blake" <blake.ackl***@gmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:1165745061.593072.168020@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com... >>>>> Yes. >>>>> >>>>> Implementing a 'Real' protection system is very very hard, if not >>>>> impossible. >>>>> >>>>> He specifically stated that his intention is not to stop skilled >>>>> crackers, but rather stopping users passing around copies freely >>>>> within >>>>> his industry or org. >>>>> >>>>> This should be fairly trivial. >>>>> >>>>> A serial based on username and/or some hardware metric. (mac address?) >>>>> would be enough to stop this type of piracy. No expensive 3rd party sw >>>>> is needed for this type of protection. >>>>> >>>>> Just enough incentive to make these users spend more of their bosses >>>>> money on a key rather than just moving an exe file to another pc. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Rad [Visual C# MVP] wrote: >>>>>> On 9 Dec 2006 19:06:20 -0800, Blake wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > If you are not worried about skillful crackers breaking your >>>>>> > protection >>>>>> > system, why don't you roll your own? It should be fairly trivial to >>>>>> > write a routine to validate a serial or key. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The hard part is keeping that routine away from prying eyes, but as >>>>>> > you've stated it is not likely that 'real' crackers will have a go >>>>>> > at >>>>>> > your apps, so simply obfuscating your assemblies and including a >>>>>> > key >>>>>> > validating routine should be enough right? >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Implementing your own protection system is much trickier than it >>>>>> sounds. I >>>>>> would not recommend going along that route. You need some >>>>>> professionally >>>>>> done system like xheo licensing >>>>>> http://xheo.com/products/enterprise/licensing/default.aspx >>>>>> >>>>>> If cost is an issue you can also check out OpenLicense >>>>>> http://openlicense.tigris.org/, which is free >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Bits.Bytes >>>>>> http://bytes.thinkersroom.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
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"Paul Bromley" <flyfis***@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in You may want to obfuscate your code too - .NET code is rather easy to news:uoZwCZ8GHHA.4116@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl: > Not sure if I can ask the question in this forum - please let me know > if it is better elsewhere. Does anyone know of a reasonably priced > good copy protection program that will protect software on either a > machine only or network range basis?? I have just found Shareguard > that looks reasonably priced. My applications are for vertical market > and are not likely to be cracked, BUT users are likely to pass working > versions around if not licensed. I have tried the option of releasing > full products with requests for contributions, but out of a fairly > large user base, only a couple of kind souls have made any > contribution. Willing to pay a reasonable amount for the right > product. reverse engineer (even for someone that is not skilled). VS.NET comes with a free limited feature obfuscator. Thanks - I have not done this - will look into it.
Paul Bromley Show quoteHide quote > You may want to obfuscate your code too - .NET code is rather easy to > reverse engineer (even for someone that is not skilled). > > VS.NET comes with a free limited feature obfuscator. 
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