Just so you don't miss the deadline!

Get it here......http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY .

Jim Hubbard

good greif, sometimes you make me wonder if you work for them *LOL*

Show quoteHide quote

Not yet...  ;)

Jim Hubbard

Jim,

I see they use php for there website, are you sure the are well known with
VB. In my opinion would they than at least use asp, to do a good job with
VBS.

For me is that not a recommendation from the product.

Just my thought,

Cor

Show quote Hide quote Well, since RealBasic is *not* VB (and not Microsoft), maybe they see MS as
a competitor and don't want to use their products for the website. Not too
surprising, if you ask me.

Cor,

Huh?!  If RealBASIC is not suitable to write Web applications, they must use
another programming language.  I would not base my choice of a product on
the technologies the manufacturer uses for the website.  Sometimes websites
are maintained by another company or there is a separate department for
website maintainance.

Herfried,

I don't know what it is, I was assumed something as VB and than I would
choose VBS.

However you know better if it is really "Basic" and than is only fairly to
compare with VB and VBS of course and do I not understand the relation in
this newsgroup.

However when it is really Basic ( Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic
Instruction Code) than I understand it and understand why there side it in
PHP.

When it is something as VB (and all dialects as VBS), than would I at least
make an ASP page to show my knowledge with from it.

Cor

Mhm...  Microsoft is a C++ shop, but it doesn't implement their websites
with C++.  I would not give this detail too much importance, that's all I
want to say.

Just my 2 Euro cents...

<yawn>

Show quoteHide quote

¤ Just so you don't miss the deadline!
¤
¤ Get it here......http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY .
¤
¤ Jim Hubbard
¤

Hasn't someone already mentioned to you that this is considered spam?


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

well i downloaded

"Realbasic"

and tryed it out ,, well i do not like the IDE  ,,,, and it should be so
familiar i was promissed   ( i am a verry experienced and certified VB 6
programmer )

well in my opinion it isn`t a nice IDE

i would only use it to make a autoplay menu  for a CD / DVD    :-)    (
because it doesn`t have deps )

but i already have Autoplay menu studio for that from indigo rose


i also heard that it is terrible slow   ( i didn`t notice this behavior yet
myself   )

hahaha

Just my 2 dollar cents   as the euro is more worth

however i did download my free copy maybe i can find a usage for it




Michel  Posseth





Show quoteHide quote

Did you look at the screenshots for REALbasic 2005?

I have the beta and it is a much improved interface.  It is scheduled for
release in 50 days or so.

Geoff has mentioned giving away the Linux standard version of REALbasic 2005
for free.  I hope this comes to pass soon.

Jim Hubbard


Show quoteHide quote

Show quote Hide quote I thought it was considered spam only if it was an advertisement to sell
something.  This is free.

Jim Hubbard

Show quote Hide quote Actually spam is just sending unsolicited messages to a goodish number of
people, I believe. Dictionary.com defines it as "Unsolicited e-mail, often
of a commercial nature, sent indiscriminately to multiple mailing lists,
individuals, or newsgroups; junk e-mail."

I wouldn't consider this spam, myself, a little tiresome perhaps but within
the pervue of the newsgroups you've chosen to post it to, thus its not
indiscriminant. It *would* be spam on the C# or C++ groups, but here it is
simply an alternate take on a language.

Show quote Hide quote Thanks for the info Daniel.  I have always tried to keep my posts restricted
to the relevant newsgroups.  As long as we do that and are offering a
different point of view or legitimately pointing out a product or service
that may help a previous poster, I see no harm in it.

Jim Hubbard

Me either, as long as you don't flood the groups, ;).

¤
¤ > wrote:
¤ >
¤ > ¤ Just so you don't miss the deadline!
¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ Get it here......http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY .
¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ Jim Hubbard
¤ > ¤
¤ >
¤ > Hasn't someone already mentioned to you that this is considered spam?
¤ >
¤ >
¤ > Paul
¤ > ~~~~
¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤
¤ I thought it was considered spam only if it was an advertisement to sell
¤ something.  This is free.

No, there is no discrimination. It would also be considered off-topic.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

Show quote Hide quote Microsoft has chosen to abandon classic Visual Basic 6, the users of it and
the BILLIONS of lines of code written and maintained with it.

These abandoned users need to do something with their classic Visual Basic
code.  I am trying to help them save most of their investment without
placing themselves in the unfortunate position of being at the "mercy" of a
company who has (a) abandoned them and (b) has chosen the intentional
breaking of backwards compatibility (not just with classic Visual Basic) as
a business model.

This is very much on topic.  If you are such a Microsoft groupie that you
can't see that, add me to your killfile list and move on.

Jim Hubbard

released on Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:38:37 -0400 bearing the
following fruit:

Show quoteHide quoteThey have not abandoned this group nor it's purpose and even
if they had WE haven't. Either way it is a poor excuse to
justify spam.

Amazingly, people are not going to come to a visual basic
group to find an alternative to visual basic.

As I've told realbasic, I'll be reporting any future spam to
the ISP of the spammer. Lets see who the ISP agrees with.



Jan Hyde (VB MVP)

Jim,

I asked you last week if you had already time to look at visual.studio Net?

Any advantance because I got the idea you had only look 5 hours to it.

Cor

I haven't given it the full evaluation that it deserves yet.  With testing
Microsoft alternatives, I just haven't had the time.

To be honest with you, I am not in a terrible hurry to do so.  IMHO,
Microsoft has abandoned me along with classic Visual Basic.  They have
forced me to rewrite hundreds of thousands of lines of code if I want to
move to VB.Net.  They are breaking backwards compatibility with their
development tools and user tools (like Office).

The thought of placing my faith, hard work and hundreds of thousands of line
of code into the hands of a company like that really scares me.  What
happens when they decide to break backwards comp with .Net?  How many times
do you want to rewrite working code?  How many times do you want to re-learn
programming because they chose to kill off the biggest (in terms of number
of developers and lines of code) development language in the world?  If they
will do this to the largest base of developers in the world, there is no
limit to what they will do to the other developers.

Along with the benefits of having the largest pool of developers in the
world comes an equally large responsibility to act in the best interest of
those developers and the companies that have adopted that platform.
Microsoft has not acted in the best interest of those classic Visual Basic
developers or in the best interest of the millions of small businesses that
rely on their classic Visual Basic codebase.

So, how much time should I devote to a new Microsoft technology?

In the best interest of my customers, I will test it fully when the end
product is delivered.  However, at this time, I believe it is in the best
interest of my customers to fully evaluate alternatives to Microsoft
products.

Could Microsoft change my mind?  Yep....in a split second.  All they have to
do is bring unmanaged Visual Basic code into Visual Studio .Net just like
they did for C++.

Will they?  I doubt it.  They are too big, too powerful and too
self-absorbed at this time to bother with little people like me.

After all, I'm only a customer.

Jim Hubbard

Jim,

I only can say, don't forever keep it with only selling T Ford parts. At a
certain moment people want more advantage ones and only some collectors will
be your customers.

It gives as well much more value on your words when you can proof about what
you are talking.

Just my thought,

Cor

Cor,

Nobody is asking Microsoft to abandon .NET.  In addition to that, the
advantages of .NET turn into disadvantages for certain types of
applications.  VB.NET is another tool for another purpose, it's no result of
an evolutionary process, and thus not a 100 % suitable replacement.
Consequently it's a legitimate standpoint to ask for a real "new version"
that fits the needs of a large group of developers.

Herfried,

I really do not see the connection from your reply on my reply to Jim. I
have told about VBCom what I found about it and than stopped to be a part of
the discussion. I have nothing to add too that.

My answer was in general to Jim. So maybe can you give me an idea what you
mean when you see directly a connection to VBCom in my answer?

Cor

Cor,

You mentioned the IMHO inappropriate Ford T sample again.

Herfried,

I asked you what the Fort T sample has to do with VBCom. Jim has almost
taken no time to study VBNet because I get the idea that he will only use
RealBasic in future for his new developments. I gave the sample to show him
be on time.

I use the Ford T sample often, however because you are involved in this,
have I as far as I remember me,  with the exception that I referenced
somebody who used that, not taken that sample in the VBCom subject, however
probably sail ships and steam ships or to say it better the transport
sample.

Those all are general economic samples by the way so I don't see why I
should not use those.

I really don't understand what you all connect to VBCom, this is a thread
about Realbasic.

Cor

Not true, Cor.  I have implemented .Net at three corporations that had never
used the technology (including an app developed for Qwest Communications
that scaled from the projected 5 users to over 2500 simultaneous users with
no problem).  I have read most of my 54 book collection on VB.Net and I have
used VB.Net 2003 extensively.

The thing I have not finished evaluating (and will not continue to do so
until it is released) is VB.Net 2005.

I will use REALbasic where appropriate.  If other technologies are more
appropriate, I will use them.

I am not a language or platform zealot.  I will use what is best for my
clients.  Right now, I am not sure that it is best for my clients to
continue to be drug around by the scruff of the neck by Microsoft.

As a responsible developer (responsible to my clients) I am looking into
Microsoft alternatives.  Linux/REALbasic has some definite advantages and I
think any serious developer should take a look.  It's still rough around the
edges, but its getting there.

Because they are not representative of the nature of the change that
Microsoft has in store.

If you insist on using an automobile analogy.....think of classic Visual
Basic as a car factory, and your applications as cars that you create.  With
the advent of .Net, Microsoft is changing the roads (the OS on which your
programs run) from smooth asphalt & concrete to new lightwieght plastic
roadways.

The new lightweight plastic roadways will allow for higher highways, longer
bridges and less environmental damage.....all good things.  Unfortunately,
your old cars are too heavy to drive on the new plastic roadways.  Now, your
classic VB cars will run fine on the old roads, but Microsoft is only
producing the new lightweight roads, will no longer fix any new potholes or
dangerous sections of the older roads and your classic VB factory cannot
make your classic VB cars safe for the new lightweight roads.

At the same time that all of this is happening, Microsoft decides to update
the C++ car factories with big, fat soft tires and a lightweight chassis
that allow C++ cars to continue to run on the new lightweight plastic
highways.  They even move the C++ car factory into the new C# factory (where
the new lightweight cars are produced) to allow the C++ cars to continue to
be produced with the fat tires and light chassis needed to extend their
lives while being able to take advantage of the new tools in the C# factory.

When you ask Microsoft to make some room in the C# factory for the classic
Visual Basic factory and to help you make fat tires and a light chassis for
your classic VB cars (to extend their lives also) they simply provide you
with a list of reasons that your classic Visual Basic cars won't run on the
new lightweight roads and a list of all the hurdles to making fat tires and
a light chassis for the classic VB cars.

This doesn't really make sense though.....there are more classic VB cars on
the road than C++ cars.  So, why is Microsoft abandoning the classic VB cars
but assisting the C++ car factories in upgrading their vehicles and even
pulling the C++ factory into the new fancy C# factory that will build cars
especially for the new lightweight roads?

A quick look over the fence of the Microsoft parking lot reveals the
answer.....the folks at Microsoft mostly drive C++ cars.  That's why they
are assisting the C++ factories and not the classic VB factories.

Sad but true.

Nevermind the fact that millions of classic VB car owners will have to
either do major work to lighten their cars enough to run on the new
lightweight highways or buy a new car.  And, the classic VB factories are
being forced to shut down and buy the new VB.Net factories to mass produce
the replacements for the classic VB cars.

This causes great hardship for millions of small businesses and individuals
that depended in their classic VB cars to get to work, and play and take the
kids to school.

But, as long as it helps Microsoft make more money.....it's all
good......right?

They are both valid alternative to the hell Microsoft has created for the
classic Visual Basic developers.

Jim Hubbard

Jim,

Than I probably understood you wrong about your knowledge of Net.

I did not use the Car sample in relation to VBCom as I wrote already to
Herfried myself, I only referenced to that in a message by somebody.

The rest of my answer anolog on your methaphor is very simple.

When Microsoft thinks that they can make better new style Trucks for their
news roads than patching up the old ones, than it is their decission. When
they think they can use still their lightweight sportcars on those new
roads, it than it is as well their decission.

When other vendors as Realbasic think that they can sell the old style
trucks and build as well new roads in a better economical way. Than the
future will show what was the best decission.

Cor

Show quote Hide quote This is very true.  It is then up to the consumer to decide whether they
want to drive on only Microsoft roads in Microsoft vehicles when Microsoft
says they can or to try different roads, and different vehicles that they
have more control over.

REALbasic factories produce a totally different kind of vehicle (a single
executable as opposed to a framework or DLL dependent vehicle) that will run
on many different kinds of roads (the old Microsoft roads, the new Microsoft
roads, older Mac roads, new Mac roads and even Linux roads).  Microsoft cars
are pretty much restricted to Microsoft roads only and are rising in cost.
And Microsoft raises the tolls for the roads whenever they like.....to
whatever they like.

And, while the REALbasic factories are not perfect, the REALbasic factory
builders are small enough that they have to listen to their customers,
whereas Microsoft is not.

Now, all you have to do is decide which car meets your needs best and crank
up the factory that produces those cars.  We can, of course, own more than a
single factory.  If users of your car will never need to travel on a
non-Microsoft road, and you don't mind buying new cars eveytime Microsoft
says to do so, you may choose a Microsoft factory.  If you want to be able
to travel any road, and don't mind that the REALbasic factories are still
being worked on, REALbasic may be good for you.

Personally I think that breaking up the largest car factory builder and road
builder into 2 seperate companies was (and still is) a good idea.  Then more
car factories could be built by more companies (because the road builder
would have to give everyone the specs on the roads at the same time instead
of only giving certian specs to is car factory unit) and the consumers would
have more choice and power over where the roads are built, where they go and
what could run on them.

Jim Hubbard

Cor,

I talked about Classic VB, not VB.COM, which is something very different.
However, Jim talked about Classic VB in this thread, that's why I referred
to it too:

Show quoteHide quote

¤ I really don't understand what you all connect to VBCom, this is a thread
¤ about Realbasic.
¤
¤ Cor
¤

Cor,

I really think you're wasting your time with Mr. Hubbard. In fact you're
encouraging him to continue posting off-topic content in addition to his rants
concerning Microsoft and VB.NET.

Ignore him and he will go somewhere else for attention.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

Paul,

The problem with this is, that although you can be right, does the way he is
writting, give me the idea that he is serious and does bring me in doubt.

For me is the problem that he cannot stop and see when he is beating a dead
horse.

A troll is mostly making very small messages at the end. Jim stays
seriously..

However, maybe have you seen that I mostly only give 1 or 2 answers to him
and than stop.

I was answering a message too Hefried in this case, on what Jim gave me a
reply which gave me the change to state a serious reply about this question.
I could not let that go.

Maybe ,these messages from us to each other, helps Jim to change his style a
little bit when he is serious.

Cor

¤ > ¤ > ¤ Just so you don't miss the deadline!
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ > ¤ Get it here......http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY
¤ > .
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ > ¤ Jim Hubbard
¤ > ¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ > Hasn't someone already mentioned to you that this is considered spam?
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ >
¤ > ¤ > Paul
¤ > ¤ > ~~~~
¤ > ¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤ > ¤
¤ > ¤ I thought it was considered spam only if it was an advertisement to sell
¤ > ¤ something.  This is free.
¤ >
¤ > No, there is no discrimination. It would also be considered off-topic.
¤ >
¤ > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/gallery/components/wn/2/locales/help_en-US.htm#RulesofConduct
¤ >
¤ >
¤ > Paul
¤ > ~~~~
¤ > Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)
¤
¤ Microsoft has chosen to abandon classic Visual Basic 6, the users of it and
¤ the BILLIONS of lines of code written and maintained with it.
¤
¤ These abandoned users need to do something with their classic Visual Basic
¤ code.  I am trying to help them save most of their investment without
¤ placing themselves in the unfortunate position of being at the "mercy" of a
¤ company who has (a) abandoned them and (b) has chosen the intentional
¤ breaking of backwards compatibility (not just with classic Visual Basic) as
¤ a business model.
¤
¤ This is very much on topic.  If you are such a Microsoft groupie that you
¤ can't see that, add me to your killfile list and move on.

You're posting to .NET groups. They have nothing to do with REALBasic.

It's advertisement and solicitation which is documented in the Rules of Conduct for the Microsoft
newsgroups.

It's your choice. You can continue to abuse the newsgroups and make excuses for your behavior or you
can show some consideration for the rest of the folks and stick with the subjects that are discussed
here.


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

Show quote Hide quote Let's see......  I don't back down from Microsoft.....so your odds of
getting me to back down from helping the abandoned classic Visual Basic
developers are what exactly?

As usual, you have nothing to say that adds to the discussion.  I will do
you a favor and add you to my killfile.

You could not support your previous arguments with facts, so now you attack
posting anything that does not endorse Microsoft solutions as being spam.

Although you'd make a good propagandist in the 3rd Reich, you'd make an
awful CIO in any organization.  You have to be able to think.

For example.....  This is a group where classic Visual Basic people are
likely to be found.  Therefore, any news that would be valuable to classic
Visual Basic developers or users is allowed - whether it is pro-Microsoft or
not.  Any free offer to classic Visual Basic users definitely falls under
this category.

If they were not interested, these postings would not have contributed to
the 32,000 new downloads of REALbasic since they started.  (BTW, this is the
last day to get version 5.5 free  -
http://www.realbasic.com/vb6/index.php?id=GVVDPQFY .)

You are only the 2nd person ever to hit my killfile.  It's sad really,
because I enjoy a good debate.  Sometimes I teach, always I learn.....except
in the case of people just looking to argue - such as yourself.

As I cannot teach you anything, and you are unwilling to produce any facts
supporting your arguments so that I may learn from you, there is no reason
to waste my time with your postings any longer.

Scream into the night, as I will no longer be listening.

Jim Hubbard

¤ Let's see......  I don't back down from Microsoft.....so your odds of
¤ getting me to back down from helping the abandoned classic Visual Basic
¤ developers are what exactly?

Well if you need help finding the right newsgroup let me know. Until then, carry on aimlessly. ;-)


Paul
~~~~
Microsoft MVP (Visual Basic)

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Listview size
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enum item from string
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API calls in DotNet
run file remotely
Stepping into a referenced assembly
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formatting datagrid error