"D H" <no@spam> wrote in message news:u5-dncRxOr-kXljfRVn-jg@comcast.com...
> Hi,
>   Hi, I was looking for your opinion on VB.NET - its long-term prospects,
> etc.  Sorry this is vague, but it's not meant to be a troll. It's a
> pro-VB.NET post actually.
>
>   I haven't used VB or VB.NET really, but I have used Realbasic (a vb
> clone), Java, C#, C, and Python.
> I work in education, and I'd like something that is easy enough for
> teachers and students to use to develop real, usable applications, not
> just to learn programming for programming's sake.  We used to use
> Hypercard/Supercard for this kind of stuff, and Realbasic was ok, too, but
> they are commercial, not cheap, and also lock you in to their environment.
> Nowadays most in education use Java and flash.
>
> I didn't really consider VB.NET before because it is also proprietary and
> I didn't want to force teachers or students to have to buy Visual Studio
> even if there is academic pricing.  But now we have the free SharpDevelop
> IDE as well as Mono's mbas and MonoDevelop IDE for other platforms.
>
> MY QUESTIONS:
> But I'm wondering why there seems to be a lot of negative opinions about
> VB.NET when it is very well designed and much easier to learn and use than
> even python for example.
> And secondly, is there a real waning interest in VB.NET, or is VB.NET's
> long-term future in any jeopardy?  Will VB.NET ever become an open
> standard like C#?  Is Microsoft going to do anything with .NET to compete
> more with java and flash's features like easier animations, better
> scientific/numeric libraries, and running in any browser (not just IE)?
> Avalon seems too limiting.
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
>
>
> I have a lot of appreciation for the design of VB.NET now.
> When I've looked at ways to make other open source languages like python
> or boo easier for beginners, the ideas turn out to be the same as what
> VB.NET uses.  Things like using "as" for types: "i as String" (seen in
> boo), case-insensitivity, real division (7/4=1.75 instead of 1 like in
> python and C#), WYSIWYG form designer, etc.
>
> So I'm listing some other nice features in the design of VB.NET and then
> some drawbacks, but I don't see why VB.NET deserves so much heat.
>
> NICE FEATURES OF VB.NET:
> -you can use GUI designers and code completion when coding VB in an IDE,
> including the free SharpDevelop IDE (you have nothing as good as this for
> python or javascript for example)
> -uses just = for both assignment and equivalence tests, instead of = and
> ==, which can cause errors in other languages.
> -use of understandable English keywords like "MustInherit" instead of
> obtuse keywords like abstract or virtual.  Although I'm sure this is a
> significant drawback when you already have learned java or C#, and the
> upper-casing of all keywords hurts readability a little I think.
> -case-insensitive syntax (unlike C# or python), which definitely helps
> beginners
> -no semi-colons at the end of the line, no curly braces for blocks
> -don't have to worry about perfectly indenting everything like in python
> -flexible options that let you for example not have to declare every
> variable first if you don't want to
> -the My.Computer stuff added for .NET 2.0
> -default values for parameters
>
> DRAWBACKS:
> -missing some advanced features that C# has, but many were added for
> VB.NET in .NET 2.0.  It even supports generics.
> -sometimes difficult for classic VB programmers to switch to VB.NET since
> it is quite different with its new OOP java-like features.
> -my main reason for not considering VB.NET before was because it wasn't
> open or free.  But now we can use SharpDevelop or Mono's mbas and
> MonoDevelop, although I believe its vb implementation is behind on .NET
> 2.0 features.
> -The array index thing is a bit strange, like this creates a 5 item array,
> not 4: Dim names(4) As String
> -the popularity of VB and VB.NET seems to be waning.  Book sales have
> dropped a good bit over the past couple of years.  People are switching to
> C# instead of VB.NET I guess.  It seems like most every .NET code sample
> out there is in C# too instead of VB.NET.
> -both VB.NET and C# have no type inference.  If the compiler were open and
> flexible we could add this ourselves (see the boo language for .NET for
> example) as well as other useful new features that may take Microsoft
> years to add if they add them at all.
> -event handling is clunky, "AddHandler MsgArrivedEvent, AddressOf
> My_MsgArrivedCallback"
>
> GENERAL DRAWBACKS OF .NET FOR EDUCATION
> -can't run apps in any browser like java, only IE on Windows
> -not as geared to animations and simulations like java and flash are
> -Mono hasn't caught on as much yet as hopefully it will